Any other types of wood?

[whino-wino]

I have access to all the free wood I could ever possibly want. I've been toying with the idea of making my own toasted oak cubes, but there are so many other types of wood at my disposal that I've started to wonder.....would any of these have a positive effect on wine? I've always simply bought my cubes and never put much thought into how or why they work, so I'm going into uncharted territory here.




Here's what I have that I could use, and I have more of each then I could ever possibly need in a lifetime for "oaking" my wine. This is all kiln dried and has been stored in pretty ideal conditions:


White Oak (this one is obvious and I will definitley use some of it)
Red Oak
Maple
Ash
Birch
Elm
White Pine
Red Pine


Would any of these possibly have good effects on a wine? I am particularly curious about the maple.


Has anyone else ever toyed with the idea of using a different wood or actually tried it? If so, can you share your notes with us?



Edited by: whino-wino

 

[Waldo]

I think I would exclude all but the white oak whino

 

[grapeman]

Since wine has been made for thousands of year and has been stored for hundreds of years in barrels. I believe all type of wood for barrels has been tried out of necessity and curiosity in the past. If white oak was found to give the best results, why not just use that rather than trying to reinvent the wheel? One of humans best attributes is that they can learn from history.

 

[NorthernWinos]

We have some large, almost dead Wild Black Cherry trees[like Chokecherries, but grow on large trees] growing along an area that we are cutting all the trees down....asking people if they want it to use in a smoker....might have a taker.

Would that be good in wine??? it sure is a pretty color wood.

 

[PeterZ]

I think various fruit woods might be worth a try. They have probably not been tried as barrels because the trees don't grow big enough. Fruit woods are very popular in smokers here in the mid-south.

 

[grapeman]

I don't know how well they would taste though. I have licked my hands after handling woods a few times(I don't know why.... I just did). It tastes kind of like after picking dandelions- you know that ultra-bitter taste! I wouldn't try it with a high end kit. But maybe with a homebrew, Welch's grape juice or something. That way it wouldn't cost a ton if it flopped on you.

 

[Dean]

You could try the white pine in a wine like Soave to make your own version of Retsina, if you like Retsina that is.

 

[Jack on Rainy]

Appleman,
If cost was the driver, some of us newbies wouldn't have started this expensive, obsessing hobby! What with wine cellars, inventory (wine that is not yet drinkable and aging), experiments in progress, equipment, kits that "seem" interesting but turn out less than hoped, it is cheaper to buy knowninexpensive wine!


That said, Whino,what's a few hundred dollars in toasting equipment, sanitizing, and storage for a few board feet ofwood and a good timewith your obsession. Have at it and tell us about it!

BTW, isn't this obsession fun?

 

[whino-wino]

Actually, I think I might give some of these a try, but I'll use appleman's advice and do something cheap. I noticed that one of our local grocery stores has a really good deal on Old Orchard frozen concentrates this week. I could probably whip up a 5 gallon batch of something for less than $15 and a little invested time. Separate them into 1 gallon carboys and do something a little different with each one. I wouldn't expect a great wine from any frozen concentrate, whether I age it on wood or not, but at least I might be able to see what differences there might be.


And yes, this obsession...I mean, ahem, hobby, is most definitely fun

 

[Wade E]

You will get too much astringency from the Red Oak.

 

[NorthernWinos]

I would never use pine...all that sap...yuck!!!

 

[whino-wino]

I'm putting the woodexperiment on the back burner for now. I checked out the sale that the local supermarket had and it did not include the grape or white grape concentrates. I'm not sure I wouldeven want to try "Apple/Mango/Passionfruit" wine, so I didn't buy any. Since I was there I did pick up some 46 oz cans of pure pineapple juice. I didn't consult any recipes before buying it so I just bought enough to make sure I could at least make a gallon. Once I checked my recipe book, I found that I actually had enough for almost 6 gallons (I bought 4 cans @ 46 fl oz each,therecipeI have from Jack Keller's siteuses 32 fl oz per gallon). I went ahead and whipped up a 5 gallon batch. We'll see how this one turns out.....

 

[hannabarn]

I made 6 gallons from Old Orchard frozen concentrate. That is the one I am currently oaking with that $100 per board foot french oak! So far it is a good tasting wine. Time will tell. I don't think I would use red oak as that has a pretty strong odor when you cut it. Also, be cautious of commercial kiln dried wood as Peter Z pointed out to me in an earlier post. There could be some chemicals used to inhibit sap stain. Just my 2 cents worth!!

 

[Wade E]

Hanna. are you using wood from a lumber yard? you should really look into where they get it from as a lot of wood is treated in some sort of way while it is in storage. i work with a lot of wood to in my trade and only got an answer on 1 unit of wood. The rest is unknown what has been done to it as far as treating it so that bugs and UV protection.

 

[hannabarn]

Wade. The wood I used for aging wood was french oak cubes from a wine store. I don't think I would use a wood from a lumber yard for oaking wine since there is no way of knowing where it comes from. Most of the wood I use in my wood working is rough sawn air dried local wood. I have access to 240 acres of wood, mostly red oak, birch and aspen, which is currently being logged. I have looked for some white oak to try for oaking but I haven't found any in my wood lot>

 

[whino-wino]

Also, be cautious of commercial kiln dried wood as Peter Z pointed out to me in an earlier post. There could be some chemicals used to inhibit sap stain. Just my 2 cents worth!!

No worries here. All of the wood was cut on our own sawmill and dried in our own kiln. Wenever usedany chemicals. We would run it through the kiln and basically sap all of the moisture out and then rehydrate it slightly (I can't remember whatpercentage it was rehydrated to, but it was pretty low) The end resultwas a board that's about 10x stronger than it would be had it been just air-dried.

 

[hannabarn]

Sounds like you have a good handle on it!

 

[suprasteve]

resurrecting an oldie here, I waited till bottling and tasting to share this, so kinda sorta has stood a short test of time in one gallon . I have a persimmon tree in my yard (makes a light colored wine) and in one of the many batches I decided to try adding some hickory chips that I use for my smoker. Now these weren't toasted and a little goes a long way, but I sprinkled a small amount into one of the gallon jugs i had and I personally like the flavor it imparted. It might not be for everyone andI don't think it would mesh so well with darker wines, but it wasn't a throw out-er. Just figured I'd share, and like I said, a little went a long way!

 

[grapeman]

Interesting note there about the hickory. I could see where it might be good. Thanks for sharing!

 

[K&GB]

I remember the winemaker at winery we visited in San Gimignano, Italy used acaci barrels for part of the oaking process on their Super Tuscans. Here's a cut and past from Wikipedia.




Throughout history other wood types, including chestnut, pine, redwood, and acacia, have been used in crafting winemaking vessels, particular large fermentation vats. However none of these wood types possess the compatibility with wine that oak has demonstrated in combining its water tight, yet slightly porous, storage capabilities with the unique flavor and texture characteristic that it can impart to the wine that it is in contact with.<SUP =reference id=cite_ref-Robinson_pg_91_20-0>[21]</SUP> Chestnut is very high in tannins and is too porous as a storage barrel and must be coated with paraffin to prevent excessive wine loss through evaporation. Redwood is too rigid to bend into the smaller barrel shapes and imparts an unpleasant flavor. Acacia imparts a yellow tint to the wine. Other hardwoods like apple and cherry wood have an off putting smell.<SUP =reference id=cite_ref-21>[22]</SUP> Austrian winemakers have a history of using Acacia barrels. Historically, chestnut was used by Beaujolais, Italian and Portuguese wine makers.<SUP =reference id=cite_ref-Oxford_pg_775_22-0>[23]</SUP> Some Rhône winemakers still use paraffin coated chestnut barrels but the coating minimizes any effect from the wood making its function similar to a neutral concrete vessel. In Chile there are traditions for using barrel made of rauli wood but it is beginning to fall out of favor due to the musky scent it imparts on wine