Zinfandel syrah blend

[Paulie vino]

I'm thinking of making a zinfandel syrah blend. I don't make much in terms of quantity so I'll probably buy 2 lugs of zinfandel and one syrah and ferment together. I'm looking for opinions on what is most frequently done with these wines from an oak perspective. Do most commercial producers oak zinfandel and if so is American oak more commonly used? Looking for suggestions for the upcoming season. I'm a relative newbie to all of this still. Thanks in advance

 

[winemaker81]

You need 2 types of oak -- fermentation and aging.

For fermentation, use shreds or chips, as it has more surface area which works better in the short fermentation period. This oak helps with color retention and the preservation of grape tannin over oak tannin. It doesn't matter what type of oak is used since it doesn't contribute flavor, although American is typically cheaper.

For aging? It's most common to use American oak (cubes, spirals, or staves) with Zinfandel, and since you're planning a 2:1 ratio, it makes sense to use American. However, if you use Hungarian or French, you'll still get a good result, so there are no wrong answers.

 

[Paulie vino]

Thanks, I have ft rouge which I will use for the fermentation. I was thinking more about post fermentation, I have a wine stix of French oak and ordered one of American oak, so I have both options available. Probably leaning towards American based on other things I've read and your opinion.

 

[winemaker81]

How much FT Rouge do you use? I've been looking at that product and considering it. The Scott docs say 20 to 50 g/hL, and going by 1 lug (36 lbs) is 14.8 liters, that's a range of 3.0 to 7.4 g/lug.

 

[mainshipfred]

How much FT Rouge do you use? I've been looking at that product and considering it. The Scott docs say 20 to 50 g/hL, and going by 1 lug (36 lbs) is 14.8 liters, that's a range of 3.0 to 7.4 g/lug.

I use FT Rouge religiously. The mid range is 10 grams per gallon of must. It is also recommended if using enzymes to wait 8 hours prior to adding tannins. I usually wait until the following day.

 

[Paulie vino]

I only used it for the first time last year so I can't say if it's good or bad. I went based on the more wine website recommended dose which much less than manshipfred uses.

"Recommended dosage rate: 0.8-1.9 g/gal. Use at an initial rate of 1.3 gram per gallon during punch down/pump over. If you want additional tannin add at a rate of .25 g/gal."

 

[winemaker81]

@mainshipfred, @Paulie vino, thanks for the feedback. I have sufficient shredded oak that I don't expect to use FT Rouge this fall, but am thinking ahead.

Y'all appear higher and lower, respectively, than what I calculated. I built a workbook that does the conversions and calculations, and did things such as assuming 1 lug produces 3.9 gallons of must. I think my formulas are correct, but will double check them.

This is a typical situation in home winemaking -- all docs are for professionals who are working in tons, while we are working in pounds (or kilos). We are the cobbler's ugly step-children who have no shoes.

To be fair, if I was making such products, I too would focus on the people who are probably buying 99% of my product.

 

[Paulie vino]

The Scotts spec sheet lists 1.6-4lb /1000 gallons. If my math is right that converts to .72g-1.8g /gallon. I could be wrong..me and math don't get along most of the time

 

[winemaker81]

The Scotts spec sheet lists 1.6-4lb /1000 gallons. If my math is right that converts to .72g-1.8g /gallon. I could be wrong..me and math don't get along most of the time

I re-did your math -- either you're right, or I made the same mistake you did.

I worked from g/hL figure, and may have made a mistake. OR it's possible the spec sheet is wrong the the metric & English units don't match up.

Also, I went with 1 lug producing 3.9 US gallons of must, a figure I found in several places. I'll re-check my math.

The bigger issue at this time is measuring the gallons of must, as it's not a constant figure, depending on the amount of stems and other "stuff" in 36 lbs of grapes.

 

[Ohio Bob]

I just eye-ball a teaspoon of FT Rouge per 5 gallons of wine.

 

[cmason1957]

I used to use American Oak almost exclusively. One time I accidentally put in French Oak, I found that I really liked it. American almost seems a bit harsh to me nowadays. But, use what you like.

 

[mainshipfred]

The Scotts spec sheet lists 1.6-4lb /1000 gallons. If my math is right that converts to .72g-1.8g /gallon. I could be wrong..me and math don't get along most of the time

I'm glad you double checked me, your math is correct. Thank goodness we have folks like you on the website who take the time to confirm things.

Sorry for the mistake!

 

[winemaker81]

Thank goodness we have folks like you on the website who take the time to confirm things.

As I've stated in the past, this is a reason why this forum is far better than videos and blogs. We spot check each other and do it politely, like rational adults.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

For those of you routinely using FT rouge or oak chips in fermentation, why do you do it? I understand what it's for, but are you adding it because you know there's a problem to fix, as insurance, or because that's what the Morewine (or other winemaking guide) suggests? And does your decision depend on the specific varietal you're making?

 

[Ohio Bob]

For those of you routinely using FT rouge or oak chips in fermentation, why do you do it? I understand what it's for, but are you adding it because you know there's a problem to fix, as insurance, or because that's what the Morewine (or other winemaking guide) suggests? And does your decision depend on the specific varietal you're making?

I use both with my juice buckets. Red wines need skin contact for bold reds. Juice buckets don’t give you that. It’s helps make a better product, in my opinion.

 

[Nebbiolo020]

Sorry I’m late replying yes American oak is heavily used for both Zinfandel and Syrah I would suggest sticking with American oak

 

[winemaker81]

For those of you routinely using FT rouge or oak chips in fermentation, why do you do it? I understand what it's for, but are you adding it because you know there's a problem to fix, as insurance, or because that's what the Morewine (or other winemaking guide) suggests? And does your decision depend on the specific varietal you're making?

I add oak to produce a better result than will occur without it. It's not really a problem that is being fixed; rather it's ensuring the wine will be the best I can make. I supposed that's a subtle difference.

Regarding what I read? I read a lot, and love the articles on WineMakerMag where they interview multiple winemakers and ask their opinions on various subjects. There's a LOT of variation, and it helps me to know why the professionals do what they do. I'm like a little kid -- "why?" is my favorite question!

Not all additives and/or techniques are useful to me, nor in all situations.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

It's not really a problem that is being fixed; rather it's ensuring the wine will be the best I can make. I supposed that's a subtle difference.

So I guess that's where I was going with 'insurance' - it's unlikely to be harmful and isn't exorbitantly expensive, so why not?

As far as red wines go I've only made pinot noir to date - never used any additives apart from tartaric acid where indicated. This year I'm venturing out into syrah, so trying to decide what I might need to do differently.

 

[winemaker81]

So I guess that's where I was going with 'insurance' - it's unlikely to be harmful and isn't exorbitantly expensive, so why not?

I'm fine with that definition.

I recorded my thoughts for making a big red, listing a lot of techniques. You might find some of it useful.

https://wine.bkfazekas.com/making-a-big-red/

 

[NorCal]

Great timing! I have a little over 100 vines of Zin and Syrah combined. I’m expecting around 15 gallons each. I made a rose out of the Zin and the Syrah went into a GSM blend. I was thinking Zin rose again and the Syrah as a stand alone red. I’m not a fan of a red spicy Zin, but perhaps blended with the Syrah it will be quite nice.