Yes, I've been lucky, until now!! HELP!!!

[Tnuscan]

Cheers to all!!

So I took 50 pounds of Raspberries someone hand picked for my brother locally and (frozen). Two 5 gallon batches @ 5pnds per gallon( full body) as per Keller's recipe for raspberry wine. Done it many times @ 1 & 3 gallon batches(store bought), and with different fruits. Went thru fermentations ph and ta ( I did not check) start sg 1.095, finished @ .0990, stabilized, bottled. 2 months later popped a cork poured a glass swirl, swirl, smell, WOW! fruity and nice... Sip...Blah... not so good. Check PH. 3.6 ....TA.1.2 WHAAATTTT????? Checked 3 different bottles at same setting with same results. Don't understand why the acid level is so high. Lesson learned CHECK EVERYTHING,EVERY TIME... (stupid is as stupid does).. Can Anything be done now or do I Toss it?

Thanks!!!

Note: I would like to say this mistake has nothing to do with Mr. Kellers recipes on his site, which I applaud him on , which also is my favorite site,... the mistake was my own for NOT checking when the time was right to eliminate any problems with the must.

 

[GreginND]

I'd probably just sweeten it to balance the acid as you open the bottles.

 

[Tnuscan]

I'd probably just sweeten it to balance the acid as you open the bottles.

Awesome! What would you start with?

Thanks

 

[JohnT]

man! that acid is up there. adding sugar is good, but you may also want to add some k-bicarb to lower the acid somewhat.

 

[Tnuscan]

man! that acid is up there. adding sugar is good, but you may also want to add some k-bicarb to lower the acid somewhat.

Thanks! I didn't think one could add that much. I guess I figured the measurement of it wrong. How much should I start with?

Thanks!

 

[Johnd]

Someone correct me if I'm off, but I think 3.6 is the ph at which cold stabilization will precipitate TA out and not lower the ph. It'd be a bear now since its in bottles, but a bench test with one bottle could be in order. If it worked out, you could do it in the bottles and just deal with the diamonds by pouring through a screen.

 

[cmason1957]

Someone correct me if I'm off, but I think 3.6 is the ph at which cold stabilization will precipitate TA out and not lower the ph. It'd be a bear now since its in bottles, but a bench test with one bottle could be in order. If it worked out, you could do it in the bottles and just deal with the diamonds by pouring through a screen.

I believe you are correct about that, but I would be surprised if cold stabilization will drop the TA by much more than 0.1 or 0.2. It is probably worth trying, sometimes pH and TA don't do what theory says they should.

 

[Tnuscan]

Thanks guys!!

By my calculations it will take 10 1/2 teaspoons per gallon of calcium carbonate.

Seems excessive but I'm going to try this and put it in the cold for 48 hours, if, I am correct. What a mess!!!

Thanks again

 

[Tnuscan]

So I should be able to eat a large pepperoni pizza with a bottle of this wine and not get heartburn. lol..

 

[GreginND]

Ok . . . let's get some perspective here.

First: the wine is already bottled. So, anything you do to it would require uncorking all of those and putting it back into carboys. No matter what, this will be hard on the wine for oxygen exposure, etc. One should evaluate the cost/benefits of such an operation.

Second: A TA of 1.2 is very manageable. I am working with grapes this year that came in at over 2 g/L. It's going to be a sweet red wine and it's tasting pretty good

Third: NO CALCIUM at this point. Calcium carbonate should only be used prior to fermentation. It takes a very long time to precipitate out calcium tartrates. It will not cold stabilize in 48 hours. It takes months, usually.

Fourth: The pH is rather high for this TA. When you say the taste is "blah" do you mean flat? Or too tangy? If flat - reducing acid will only get worse. If tangy - that can be balanced with sugar.

So, the least intrusive and safest thing to do is chalk this up to a learning experience and do it different next time. Experiment with one bottle - make a simple syrup and make up several samples with different amounts of the sugar. Decide which amount tastes the best and then use that formula every time you open a bottle. I'd enjoy the wine and sweeten it to taste when serving if it were me.

 

[Tnuscan]

GreginND,

Thank you for this information.
I had come to the understand cal. carb. was the only thing after fermentation was complete.
I just added 10.5 teaspoons to a gallon gasses it up and sealed it.
I've tried building the sweetness up slowly, it became tolerable but not acceptable for my taste.
Your correct about the Ph being where it is and all that acid.
It won't happen again I will always check before the primary ferm. is started.
The raspberry's were free, but the labor and loosing the wine is what's sad.
Thanks again! Cheers!

 

[GreginND]

Well, hopefully you can enjoy it. If nothing else, try blending it with a lower acid wine.

Calcium carbonate should be used pre-fermentation. Potassium carbonate or bicarbonate is the best thing after fermentation. Be careful not to adjust TA more than 0.2 g/L with these additions. Calcium carbonate may make your wine taste chalky. Did you do tasting trials with it to know how much to add? It is all about the taste, after all, not the numbers specifically.

Good luck and please let us know how it turns out.

 

[Tnuscan]

Well, hopefully you can enjoy it. If nothing else, try blending it with a lower acid wine.

Calcium carbonate should be used pre-fermentation. Potassium carbonate or bicarbonate is the best thing after fermentation. Be careful not to adjust TA more than 0.2 g/L with these additions. Calcium carbonate may make your wine taste chalky. Did you do tasting trials with it to know how much to add? It is all about the taste, after all, not the numbers specifically.

Good luck and please let us know how it turns out.

Yes, You are correct I was wrong about the calcium carbonate.
I believe I will try sweeting further and do the blending.

Really appreciate you help. I have a lot to learn.

Also explains why my lips are white. lol.

Thanks again!!!

 

[JohnT]

Well, hopefully you can enjoy it. If nothing else, try blending it with a lower acid wine.

Calcium carbonate should be used pre-fermentation. Potassium carbonate or bicarbonate is the best thing after fermentation. Be careful not to adjust TA more than 0.2 g/L with these additions. Calcium carbonate may make your wine taste chalky. Did you do tasting trials with it to know how much to add? It is all about the taste, after all, not the numbers specifically.

Good luck and please let us know how it turns out.

Greg,

Wouldn't it be best that he lower at least some of the acid using k-bicarb, then sweeten to compensate for the remaining high acid?

Just wondering if there was a reason for just using a back-sweeten and not using k-bicarb also?

 

[Tnuscan]

Ok . . . let's get some perspective here.

First: the wine is already bottled. So, anything you do to it would require uncorking all of those and putting it back into carboys. No matter what, this will be hard on the wine for oxygen exposure, etc. One should evaluate the cost/benefits of such an operation.

Second: A TA of 1.2 is very manageable. I am working with grapes this year that came in at over 2 g/L. It's going to be a sweet red wine and it's tasting pretty good

Third: NO CALCIUM at this point. Calcium carbonate should only be used prior to fermentation. It takes a very long time to precipitate out calcium tartrates. It will not cold stabilize in 48 hours. It takes months, usually.

Fourth: The pH is rather high for this TA. When you say the taste is "blah" do you mean flat? Or too tangy? If flat - reducing acid will only get worse. If tangy - that can be balanced with sugar.

So, the least intrusive and safest thing to do is chalk this up to a learning experience and do it different next time. Experiment with one bottle - make a simple syrup and make up several samples with different amounts of the sugar. Decide which amount tastes the best and then use that formula every time you open a bottle. I'd enjoy the wine and sweeten it to taste when serving if it were me.

Correct again, I recalibrated my ph meter and my correct Ph is 3.0. If it is accurate.

 

[Johnd]

Correct again, I recalibrated my ph meter and my correct Ph is 3.0. If it is accurate.

If your ph is 3.0, that takes cold stabilization out of the equation, it would only make the wine more acidic at this point..........

 

[Tnuscan]

Greg,

Wouldn't it be best that he lower at least some of the acid using k-bicarb, then sweeten to compensate for the remaining high acid?

Just wondering if there was a reason for just using a back-sweeten and not using k-bicarb also?

Thanks! I will purchase some k-bicarb and do a sample run with it.

Many Thanks!!!

 

[Tnuscan]

So now correct readings are. 4.8cc x .25 = 1.2 TA ---Ph 3.0
Sorry for false reading.

Thanks!

 

[JohnT]

That makes much more sense!

 

[jensmith]

Instead of a simple syrup use frozed juice conventrate. Way better flavore profile for backsweetning. Especially when trying to fix a problem. The grape concentrate is very lacking in acid. It should balance out the raspberries better then simple syrup.