YAN test- Benefit or overkill?

Discussion in 'Yeast, Additives & Wine Making Science' started by Ajmassa5983, Apr 8, 2018.

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  1. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    Just found out about a ‘wine lab’ only 20 min from my home. I guess there’s enough local ‘lab-less’ wineries to justify this joint. (Probably just a dude in his basement with half decent equipment). They have panel deals or pay by the test. I immediately thought of free so2 and YAN level.
    But is this even logical? To crush and then drop off a sample- I’d need that so2 level immediately- otherwise pointless (A/O or ‘ripper’ test) And for YAN- is it worth the $24 test or overkill? To be honest dosing nutrient always feels like a crapshoot.
    Let’s assume they have results before it’s time for 1st addition. (Still Awaiting email response)
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  2. Johnd

    Johnd Large Member Supporting Member

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    Regarding YAN, if I had a place 20 minutes away, I’d spend a few bucks to ensure an appropriate nutrient protocol. I probably tend to the heavy side of dosing when I don’t know YAN, as H2S and mercaptan issues can ruin a batch at worst, cause a lot of extra work to clean up with Reduless at best.
    As long as they can turn the YAN test around in a couple days, you should be able to call your dosage very early in fermentation.
     
  3. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    Site says samples tested same day. I emailed for more details though.
    I really don’t have the greatest grasp on nutrients just yet. I just dose as instructions call and don’t know enough to know “what I like”, or when to use DAP or other nutes. I just know not use DAP later on fermentation).
    Knowing the YAN might benefit my ferment, or just complicate it. I need to do some reading to figure out which.
     
  4. Johnd

    Johnd Large Member Supporting Member

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    IIRC, @stickman posted a pretty handy nutrient dosage protocol, based on the YAN of the must, but I wasn’t able to go back and locate it, maybe he’ll repost it..........
     
  5. Johnd

    Johnd Large Member Supporting Member

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    5121304D-D6F5-4212-A125-3F9EABAC5B16.png Tried a more refined search and found it, not everything you need to know, but it’s a good reference......
     
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  6. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    Thanks for that.i dove into some research last night. It was less complicated then what I built up in my head. I found a couple other sources to really give me a good comprehension ofYAN. It now seems like a no-brainer to take advantage of this lab.
    ***also should note how helpful FermCalc is- always the unsung hero. They do all the work for you-accounting for your specific yeast and nutrient being used. Plug in your #’s and get an exact amount needed. Broken into multiple additions if desired and showing nitrogen breakdown within additions. Just fantastic.
    I bookmarked this article. https://extension.psu.edu/nutrient-management-during-fermentation
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  7. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    The website email wasn’t able to go through- but a cell # was listed.
    A text and quick response confirmed test and results are same day- never exceeding 24 hrs.
    I’ve not had 1 fermentation problem in almost 10yrs of juice pails. But all-grape is whole other ballgame. Issues in just my 2nd season. One problem ferment was a big enough headache to force me to take any and all preventative measures possible.
    Plus unlike previous batches I’ll be able to punchdown and tend to the ferment multiple x daily- instead of once in the afternoon.
     
  8. mainshipfred

    mainshipfred Junior Member Supporting Member

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    AJ, not sure if you have a Vinmetrica but they offer a YAN test kit. It works with the 200 and 300. The kit is $23.00 and does 25 tests. Wouldn't take that many tests at the lab to pay for the equipment and solutions. Watching the video it appeaars you may be able to do it with just a ph meter and the solution kit. BTW, I'm a little upset with you for bringing this up just before spring crush, you're forcing me to think about something I hadn't planned on considering.
     
  9. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    No vinmetrica yet and I did not know about the YAN capability. If it’s that easy why not take advantage? I would (will). 100%.
    But take notice of the thread title. Thought it might be over the top. But a trouble ferment kinda messes with your psyche. you eve get rear-ended? The rest of your life any time you slam the breaks the instinctual reaction becomes reaching across the front seat to protect the precious cargo while simultaneously watching that rear view mirror like a hawk! That’s how I feel about my upcoming ferment.

    Stuckfermentitus (aka PTFSD) - going to great lengths and taking all available realistic options to prevent a trouble ferment—resulting from the traumatic stress of a previous stuck fermentation. Known cure- multiple successful fermentations.
     
  10. mainshipfred

    mainshipfred Junior Member Supporting Member

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    I thought you might be referring to excess YAN. Forget how many batches you are doing this spring. Thought I remember only one. If that's the case the lab is pretty reasonable
     
  11. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    Technically 3. 2 separate Malbec grape batches (same YAN tho) fermented and aged separately w/ diff yeast and mlb. Blending next year. And a Syrah juice pail- likely with a whole bunch of Malbec grapes.
    ‘Excess’ YAN? The heck is that? Thought it was just 1 level. And you then add nutrients to bring up to desired level theoretically. What don’t I know?
     
  12. mainshipfred

    mainshipfred Junior Member Supporting Member

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    I was reading articles, not many, of negative affects to too much nitrogen.
     
  13. pgentile

    pgentile Supporting Members Supporting Member

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    Until I increase my batch size and only doing 600-800 lbs of grapes a year in 3 batches, with S02 and YAN/Nitrogen I will stick to the suggested rules and regimens to manage both. Although if adding the cost of 3 tests for nitrogen $72 would work out to around .09-.12 per bottle. Not breaking the bank. But then again have to get the sample over there and most times it would be to confirm that all is good.
     
  14. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    Was just a situation of circumstance really. Noticed this lab only 15 min away. Figured it was worth investigating.
     
  15. Ajmassa5983

    Ajmassa5983 Member Supporting Member

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    I took your advice and called Vinmetrica about the discounted refurbished units. Only 1 person ahead of me on the list. The discount depends on the extent of refurbishing needed. ‘Refurbished” does make me hesitant tho. Either way I’m on the list as well as their mailing list for their bi-annual discounts.
    All in I’d be paying about $660 for a new SC-300 pro kit (with all the gadgets $625) plus a YAN test kit ($32).
    Not chump change. Whether I purchase on sale or a discounted refurbished unit- I’ll own one soon enough -hopefully by the fall.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
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  16. mainshipfred

    mainshipfred Junior Member Supporting Member

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    You will really like it. I've had no problem with my refurbished unit. The probes and everything else is new except for the meter. If I remembeer correctly mine was $485.00 for the Pro 300. I would recommend the 10 ml burette in lieu of the 25. The calibration on the 10 is very nice. BTW, I went back and researched excess nitrogen. Most of it was over my head or maybe I wasn't in the mood to read it that hard. There are negative affects but from the little I read I couldn't find how much was too much.
     
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