Quantcast

Which yeast for Shiraz in scorching hot climate

Wine Making Talk

Help Support Wine Making Talk:

Obelix

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
174
Reaction score
37
I'm a beginner in Perth, Western Australia - and about will make my first batch of 150L Shiraz this year.
I expect to get the grapes by the end of Feb early March. Perth can be scorching hot at that time.
Not sure which yeast to buy for Shiraz in near 40C temperatures.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance :)
 

Johnd

Senior Member
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
6,606
Reaction score
6,492
Location
South Louisiana
I'm a beginner in Perth, Western Australia - and about will make my first batch of 150L Shiraz this year.
I expect to get the grapes by the end of Feb early March. Perth can be scorching hot at that time.
Not sure which yeast to buy for Shiraz in near 40C temperatures.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance :)
I don't know of a yeast that can survive at 40 C (104 F). Fermentation should be conducted in a temperature controlled environment, or in a fermentation tank with temperature control capabilities. There are scads of threads in the forum about different methods of controlling temps with less sophisticated methods, a search will help you find them.

Here's a great article about Shiraz from Winemaker Magazine, detailing nearly everything you might query about making your wine, and in Australia to boot!!!!

https://winemakermag.com/648-super-syrah

Welcome aboard, and good luck.
 

ibglowin

Moderator
Staff member
Administrator
Joined
Jul 7, 2009
Messages
21,973
Reaction score
13,559
Location
Northern Nuevo Mexico
Look at the (detailed) yeast charts online. Pick a slow or moderate fermenter (yeast). 150L is ~ 40USG so this would be manageable to cool down if need be with some small additions of dry ice should you start approaching must temps going over 90F (32C).
 

Obelix

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
174
Reaction score
37
I don't know of a yeast that can survive at 40 C (104 F). Fermentation should be conducted in a temperature controlled environment, or in a fermentation tank with temperature control capabilities. There are scads of threads in the forum about different methods of controlling temps with less sophisticated methods, a search will help you find them.

Here's a great article about Shiraz from Winemaker Magazine, detailing nearly everything you might query about making your wine, and in Australia to boot!!!!

https://winemakermag.com/648-super-syrah

Welcome aboard, and good luck.
Thanks John, will have a good read through that link and will search for the threads discussing the alternative methods of cooling.

Cheers,
 

Obelix

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
174
Reaction score
37
Look at the (detailed) yeast charts online. Pick a slow or moderate fermenter (yeast). 150L is ~ 40USG so this would be manageable to cool down if need be with some small additions of dry ice should you start approaching must temps going over 90F (32C).
Thanks Mike, I had a look at some charts and it seems like there are at least 4-5 different varieties - hence the forum question.
I'll now factor in the slow/moderate fermenter to reduce the choice.
Dry ice to keep the temperature down? Interesting. Would have never thought of that.
I better read up on the cooling methods.
Plenty of studying pending it seems :)
 

Obelix

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
174
Reaction score
37
...and after a lot of reading, and comparisons ...
I decided to go with Enoferm Syrah
 
Last edited:

balatonwine

The Verecund Vigneron
Joined
May 9, 2017
Messages
974
Reaction score
669
Location
Badacsony wine region. Hungary

Johnd

Senior Member
WMT Supporter
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
6,606
Reaction score
6,492
Location
South Louisiana
Depends on the yeast. Many can survive at that temp. But not necessarily an optimal temperature for growth (or wine making). Greater than 40°C reduces growth. 60°C/140°F is the killing temp. Also see:

https://www.researchgate.net/post/What_average_temperature_are_yeast_cells_killed
I bow humbly to your superior internet searching / fact checking ability. Please, furnish the OP with your recommendation for yeast to use for fermenting at 40C, that was the question.
 

Redbird1

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
325
Reaction score
102
Depends on the yeast. Many can survive at that temp. But not necessarily an optimal temperature for growth (or wine making). Greater than 40°C reduces growth. 60°C/140°F is the killing temp. Also see:

https://www.researchgate.net/post/What_average_temperature_are_yeast_cells_killed
I don't know about you, but I don't often make decisions based on a single random internet post. Not to mention, it doesn't say anything about wine yeast at all, and claims that optimal fermentation temperature for "yeast" is 95F. 95F is definitely hot enough to kill off most beer yeasts, so blanket statements like that are misleading at best and downright wrong at worst.
 

balatonwine

The Verecund Vigneron
Joined
May 9, 2017
Messages
974
Reaction score
669
Location
Badacsony wine region. Hungary
I don't know about you, but I don't often make decisions based on a single random internet post. Not to mention, it doesn't say anything about wine yeast at all, and claims that optimal fermentation temperature for "yeast" is 95F. 95F is definitely hot enough to kill off most beer yeasts, so blanket statements like that are misleading at best and downright wrong at worst.
Well my link was to "research gate". A science hang out. Not exactly "random". And there are other sources, easy to search for using your favorite search engine, that confirm this report if you are in doubt. :)

And I start my yeast in a must sample warmed to 40°C routinely. Works fine. ;)
 

Redbird1

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2016
Messages
325
Reaction score
102
Well my link was to "research gate". A science hang out. Not exactly "random". And there are other sources, easy to search for using your favorite search engine, that confirm this report if you are in doubt. :)

And I start my yeast in a must sample warmed to 40°C routinely. Works fine. ;)
I'm sorry, but the source has zero validity and the temperatures listed are inaccurate for anything except perhaps very specific strains of yeast. It is misleading to post it and intellectually dishonest to try to use it as a reference in a discussion on wine yeast.

Your posts have a tendency to steer discussions off topic. I think the forum would be better served if you put your fantastic search engines skills to use in offering up a yeast that would work for the poster for the entirety of primary fermentation instead of just the temperature that one rehydrates their yeast.
 

Obelix

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
174
Reaction score
37
A more heat tolerant yeast is obviously better, however, from the discussion above I understood I should try not to allow the must to be at 40C and need to keep the temperature down. So all good from my side.
My next task is to search for the previous disucciosn on how to manage the must temperature, and learn some damage control if the yeast dies off.
All very useful learning for me. Thanks.
 

Slappy

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2018
Messages
117
Reaction score
102
I'm in South Australia and will potentially be facing similar temperatures. I'll be crushing about 300kg of beautiful dry grown old vine Grenache in around 4 weeks with the help of my neighbor, an elderly Italian gentleman whos been making wine for over 50 years. He's never worried about cooling things down but did advise to do the ferment in the coolest place I can which will be my laundry at around 25-27 degrees. I've drank his wines at 5-7 years old and they've been lovely and fruit driven. He does wild ferments too but I'll use a commercial yeast. I also work with a commercial winemaker and he advised to just keep things clean, pick and crush the fruit asap and open ferment with some shadecloth to stop flies getting in and all should be fine. He also wasn't too concerned about the heat factor as long as I followed the advice given. Your yeast will likely be fine. Perhaps have some EC1118 on hand for if you end up with a stuck ferment as it's well known to pretty much rip through anything.
Good luck with your Shiraz I'll be interested to hear how you go.
 

Obelix

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
174
Reaction score
37
Hi Slappy,

Good to hear from you. Hope to be able to compare notes as we start.

Some of my friends mix 80% of Grenache with 20% Shiraz.
I decided, for my first attempt - to stick with a single variety.

I also helped an older guy before who let the nature take it's course and his wine varied from excellent to poor from one year to another. Very inconsistent.
However, the process itself was a lot of fun - picking, crushing....eventually drinking it :)

I'm excited to see how mine will turn out, and the anticipation is a lot of fun.
I'll engage the whole family to participate too (if they wish to drink it later ). 150L (220 bottles?) should be sufficient for me, and my (adult) kids and frineds, and I'll also store some for later years - to see how it's maturing.

Just ordered a variable capacity tank, the VAT is on order. Yeast arrived, nutrients on order.
Gettign ready to start. Cant' wait.
 

REDRUM

Vinthropologist
Joined
Nov 28, 2013
Messages
253
Reaction score
92
Location
Adelaide, South Australia
Hi Obelix, as I mentioned in yr introductions thread I'm in Adelaide, with Dalmatian in-laws ... and my experience is with grenache/shiraz blend too, so hopefully we can compare notes!
I think the most important thing in an Aussie summer is keeping the ferment cool. For my own purposes this time round I will be doing a few 30L fermenters (the homebrew beer type), and I'm planning to make them into a DIY evaporative cooler - i.e. put the barrels in a slightly bigger bucket of water, drape wet towel/tshirt over it, cool with airflow from a fan. Not super precise but if I can drop the temps 5 degrees or more it will make a big difference I think.
As for yeast, I have used Lalvin Bourgovin RC212 (from homebrew shop) & it's been fine but I might look into the Enoferm syrah too!
 

Obelix

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
174
Reaction score
37
Redrum...to continue from the previuous thread...

Dalmatia is similar in many ways, but the temperature is on average 3-5C less than in WA, and what's really important, it has a mild temperature in October when the grapes are pressed. Also the soils are much richer, and not sandy at all.

So not a good idea to blindly re-apply the wine making technique used in Dalmatia.
Having said that, the wine over there is these days made using modern equipment and the quality is excellent.

To compare notes - I will do the secondary fermentation in a variable capacity tank - indoors. It will be under 30C
The biggest problem is the primary - To produce 150L of wine, I'll buy 260-280kg of grapes - too much volume to keep indoors, and will likely be done under my carport in the open.
So hoping for the best - and need to learn the cooling techniques.

re: yeast
After readign up , and checking comparison charts, talkign to local shops, I considered D80, RC212, Syrah , V21 (?) - all seem suitable.
Evenutally I picked one based on the tempreature/alcohol tolerance, and the taste expectations.
It's all very theoretical and likely naive :)

May start another thread with a detailed plan for a newby - get some useful advice before I make mistakes.
 
Joined
Feb 17, 2018
Messages
20
Reaction score
8
Hi Obelix, as I mentioned in yr introductions thread I'm in Adelaide, with Dalmatian in-laws ... and my experience is with grenache/shiraz blend too, so hopefully we can compare notes!
I think the most important thing in an Aussie summer is keeping the ferment cool. For my own purposes this time round I will be doing a few 30L fermenters (the homebrew beer type), and I'm planning to make them into a DIY evaporative cooler - i.e. put the barrels in a slightly bigger bucket of water, drape wet towel/tshirt over it, cool with airflow from a fan. Not super precise but if I can drop the temps 5 degrees or more it will make a big difference I think.
As for yeast, I have used Lalvin Bourgovin RC212 (from homebrew shop) & it's been fine but I might look into the Enoferm syrah too!
I agree with the RC212. It is one of my go to's for a dry, spicy red. My only gripe with it is that it can be a little more nitrogen hungry than some others. Also it will stink out if you start climbing up towards 90°F (32°C). I take 1 gallon jugs of ice and swap two out per 100L of must once or twice a day to keep my temps in line during the vigorous stages of fermentation. You might need 3/100L or so. Keep a close eye on those temps though. Let it run a little warm for the first couple days then try to get down to about 25°C and drag out the fermentation as long as you can. Make sure you punch down a couple times a day and especially towards the end of fermentation get that punch down tool down close to the bottom and churn up the gross lees. Good luck! Cheers.
 

Obelix

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2018
Messages
174
Reaction score
37
Thanks Rick
Simple and practical. As usual - simple ideas are the best :)
Lucky with the scorchers so far - but I'll remember the approach if it goes up - or for the next year.

I started yeaterday. The yeast went in this morning. (Enoferm Syrah)
So far, so good. temp around 30C - day by day - predicted 34 in 2 days, but it will go back to 30 the next day - so it seems OK.
 

Latest posts

Top