want to plant about a 1/2 acre. a few questions

[TimTheWiner]

So I am VERY new into this hobby (less than a year), and just recently made the jump from kits to fresh produce. I definitely am looking forward to grapes later this year. I am probably jumping way ahead with dreams of a 20 acre vineyard someday, but my current job is killing me and I need something to fantasize about. Anyhow, my dad has a small (maybe 1/4-1/2 acre) field that he is tired of mowing and mentioned maybe we could put some vines on it. I see Cabernet Franc grows well in CT (which I love) and maybe would try a white varietal as well. Big question is what time of year do most people try to get the vines started in the ground? I am assuming spring which will give me time to save $$ and plan for next year. Also what route do most people go for vines? Cuttings from other vines or ordering from a site like http://www.doubleavineyards.com/c-1-buy-grapevines.aspx or http://www.willisorchards.com/category/Grape+Vines

I am trying to guesstimate what a project like this will cost, and I want to keep cost at a minimum for now since it will not be commercially sold, but quite intriguing and seems like a good small scale to start with

 

[GreginND]

You want to replace a field that you have to mow with grapes to reduce the work? Keep dreaming.

Just kidding.

Planning will be important. You don't say where you are or what varieties you will plant. If you need grafted vines you can't just take cuttings. If you are using other hybrids, cuttings may be an option but I think it's too late to take cuttings now. They need to be taken when the plants are dormant. But I don't have a lot of experience so I could be wrong. I would say that purchasing vines will be your best option. You will want to plan to place your orders this coming fall/winter to make sure you can get what you want for spring planting. You also will want to prepare your soil this year. Get a soil test to see if you need to amend it. If it is grass it may b depleted of nitrogen.

 

[garymc]

$10,000 an acre is one estimate for getting a vineyard started. That would include economy of scale, which you don't have, but your advantage is that you won't likely be hiring people, buying a tractor, etc. If you're able to scrounge things like trellis posts and do a lot of (all of) the labor yourself it could be cut to a few hundred dollars for 1/4 to 1/2 acre. You have to think about the things that need to be done in advance and there are 2 kinds of advance. Things that can be done any time and things that must be done during a growing season or a dormant season. For instance, you might start killing grass and weeds now during the growing season since sprays will be ineffective when they're dormant. You might put in a couple of rows a year for 2 or 3 years, for instance. If you know what variety of vines you're going to raise, you can start planning the trellis system (or just go with something simple to start.) You could be looking around for materials to use for trellis posts (scrounging.) One of the 2 nurseries you mentioned has a good reputation.

 

[TimTheWiner]

Well I am assuming that using some "standard" spacing info that I've looked at I would fit about 200-250 vines which would run me around $650-$850. I think starting the prep work this summer/fall for a spring planting would be ideal. Is it indeed spring when I should be planting? I see that one of the sites sells them as two years old, does that mean I could have a crop in a year or two rather than 3-5??

 

[TimTheWiner]

You want to replace a field that you have to mow with grapes to reduce the work? Keep dreaming.

Just kidding.
.

lol, what I meant was I can be the one "managing" the field (like its really that big) vs my dad. I am thinking about Cabernet, Sauvignon Blanc, and possibly Riesling. Is the soil testing expensive??

 

[tfries]

We put in a 1/2 acre vineyard 5 years ago. Tilling and preparation of the soil was a few hundred. Planting the 392 vines, trellis materials and instillation were around 1600. Deer fencing and instillation was about 1000. The 392 vines were $2.50 each. As we are dry farming, this did not include any irrigation. A 25 gallon sprayer and 3pt carry all for the tractor was about 500. 1700 feet of bird netting was $500. Powdery mildew and botrytis sprays are a couple hundred a year. Time commitment is several hours a week for vine positioning, tucking and spraying.

You might think that a 1/2 acre vineyard is not that big, but if you have a full time job and only have weekends to "manage" the field, you will be surprised how much of your spare time is required. You need to be prepared to be fully committed to the vineyard from bud break to harvest.

 

[TimTheWiner]

Well, I basically see this as the ideal opportunity to see if it's something I would really want to do on a large scale someday. Did you have to pay for labor? I am confident I can do all of the trellis, post, fencework myself. I really just have to convince my grandmother to allow me to do it, but their house is only 5 minutes from me so it would be the perfect scenario to get my feet wet and learn the basics. I was a little worried about the deer/bird factor and hadn't really figured that in at all. I wish I personally had the land to do it, but own (and occupy) a duplex at the moment and for at least the next few years so it doesn't seem the ideal place to start.

 

[grapeman]

Cost for that size vineyard can be all over the map. As the others have said, it can be very expensive, but you may substitute some of the expense with a lot of hard work.
Don't skimp on the trellising. It needs to be substantial and well constructed.
Don't use own-rooted vines for those vinifera you have chose.
Buy from a reputable source such as Double A Vineyards or Grafted Grapevines for those varieties.

As time and the conversation moves along, I will try to give better responses, but time is at a premium this time of year.

Good Luck!

 

[Brew and Wine Supply]

For the first three years about all you do is mow!. I have in about 200 plants and have done it as cost effective as I can. Untill the plants get bigger I use 2 gallon pump up sprayers now, looking at a 15 gallon battery powered one at the farm supply. Posts.. I have a 100x600 strip of cedar trees I am cutting down a few at a time. With the drought, I am watering with 6 gallon "gas" type cans for the young plants I planted this year. Have already lost a few. 12 ga wire, I picked up a 1200' roll at the farm supply for just over $100. Start now looking into what type of grapes you want to grow/make wine out of as you order in the fall ( aug/sept/oct) and plant in the spring (Apr/May).
Start preping where you want to plant now. we ran a sub soiler ( big hook that plows only one row about 6" wide but we went 2' deep.) Spray with herbicide along the rows to kill off anything under the plants ( I did not do this and have been fighting the weeds there more than anything). Set your rows up at 10' apart, closer if you are not using a tractor ( I have an old Ford 8N that works well, traded for it with an old Farmall M, that was too big). Plants should go about 8' apart depenting on type. End posts can be wood but use metal T posts about every 3rd to 4th plant to susport the wires. First year you probally wont need wires but run them all at one time, no reason to come back and do the work again. If you are running an irragation system, run that wire high enough to get a push mower under it, you may not use one but once the weeds get away from you it is an easy way to get a handle on it.
The use of bambo poles is handy, had a friend get 3/8 rebar for his stakes, costs a bit more up front but will last forever if you plan on expanding through the years. Bamboo rots out after a while with a life of bout 2 to 4 years. Grow tubes come in handy for the first year, I borrowed some from my friend as he is not planting anymore ( established), cut costs there, or check with a vineyard, they may sell them cheap, new they run between $1 and $2 each. Don't have a problem with deer, just birds, so bird netting when its time to harvest in three to four years. Getting older plants will not give an earler harvest, just a more established plant.
Plant tyes, the black rubber ones work great for tying the stakes to the wire, but for attaching the plants use the 1/2" green plastic tape, they come in rolls and you can tear off whatever length you need. a handy item is an nail apron to put the plant tyes and trimers in, or anything else you need to carry around with you with out filling up your pockets. A pair of good thin leather gloves, heavy ones for winter.
Sorry for the ramblings, just posting what comes to mind.
Good luck, the reward in the end is worth the work up front.

 

[TimTheWiner]

Well I was/am quite gung ho about the project and doing quite a lot of reading here and some productive google searches. However, not the future of the land in question may be unknown. My grandmother is 88 and I explained to my dad my intentions, he said I could use 1/3 of the field for now and possibly expand later (would kind of rather do it in one shot), but if something happens to her and my 6 aunts/uncles were to get the house I'm sure they would sell it and split the proceeds which would render my years of time/$$ useless. It would be nice if I could someone buy out that small area, but I don't know that the town would allow it and I can't assume any future owner would rent be the land or allow me any access. DAMN! Guess I got a little ahead of myself but I NEED to find a way to get deeper into this sooner rather than later.

 

[Brew and Wine Supply]

I found a 3 acre plot, was a hay field for sale. the owner financed half for three years. Thats how I got started. With the economy as it is there is someone willing to sell something at a decent price.

 

[TJsBasement]

You could always check out the local tax sales, sometimes property goes really cheap.

 

[TimTheWiner]

Stinks because all property and land in CT is quite expensive. I drool over 5 acre lots in NC and other places that can be had for <$20k, here even a .5 acre is $40k+. Anyway, I may have slightly good news. I talked to my grandmother about the field and she seems like it would be ok, although my dad still thinks that .2 acres is going to be way more than I can handle alone and should start with about a 1/3 of the field. I feel like if it's going to take 3 years for a harvest, then I would prefer to just plant everything at once. Although I am a bit nervous have never tilled, or done much work like this in my life so I will be learning every step of the way. I'll try and post some pics of the area at some point or maybe I'll start a "vineyard progress" thread as I see many do. Also worried that if the houses gets heired to her kids (my aunts/uncles) then the house will be sold, but maybe there is a possibility I could buy off just the small lot or request a future owner to utilize the land? I figure it's worth the money and time just to learn the process.

 

[BobF]

I wouldn't do it. The uncertainty isn't really that uncertain - sounds like the property is NOT going to be yours in the end.

Offer to help out at a local vineyard if you want to learn. You might even be able to work a deal for purchasing grapes at a discount. How much do grapes grown by pros cost in your area? I was considering a Chambourcin planting. I did the research and figured out the cost, the years until harvest, the ongoing time and cost ... then I found that I can buy Chambourcin grapes semi-local for $.65/#, with free use of the vineyards crusher/destemmer. They also have Seyval same price and a press that's also free to use.

Once I got over the romance factor, guess what I decided?

 

[TimTheWiner]

Well maybe it is mostly the romantic attraction at this point. I would just like to believe that there's a way in the future but it would be a lot of time and energy lost if not. I am going to one local Vineyard tomorrow and hoping to pick their brain a bit. There are two others that are about 30 minutes from me.

 

[bigdrums2]

I did something similar to you with probably a 1,000 invested - good trellis system, wire and vines. If you want to go cheaper, a lot of vineyard will let you keep cuttings if you spend a day working for them. Hundreds of cuttings and then good experience. Now, my two cents....check out hybrids. You can lower your costs significantly and still have good wine. Vinifera is just too fussy - its from Europe, not here.
Anyways, double a and grafted grape are very good. Grafted I on the winepress forum and gives good tips all the time.

 

[Brew and Wine Supply]

Although I am a bit nervous have never tilled, or done much work like this in my life so I will be learning every step of the way. I'll try and post some pics of the area at some point or maybe I'll start a "vineyard progress" thread as I see many do. Also worried that if the houses gets heired to her kids (my aunts/uncles) then the house will be sold, but maybe there is a possibility I could buy off just the small lot or request a future owner to utilize the land? I figure it's worth the money and time just to learn the process.

You should have seen it the first time I tried to run the tractor with the brush hog

See if she would deed that section of property to you so you won't loose it.
Good luck!

 

[Ron22]

Like other have said risky if she might give the land away. Either way I would start small the first year and plant more the next for 3 years. You will learn from you mistakes on the first batch and can aply it to the next batch.
Also see if you can work some kind of deal for her to dead you the part you plant.
By the wy I just planted a few vines so I have no idea what I am talking about

 

[TimTheWiner]

So I refuse to give up on the idea, I may talk to some aunts/uncles and see if I might buy own the small piece of land if/when the time came. For now, I have a question about irrigation. Her well is somewhat shallow and rather not have to be dependent on her water source. I don't know if "just rain" will do it, so I found some 250 gallon rain collection drums for $125 or 60 gallon used food drums for $25. Does anyone have any good links or resources on this kind of irrigation? Do I need a pump/electricity? I am also interested in how to collect the rain other than using a roof.

 

[bigdrums2]

1 year vines should definitely be watered often, several time a week in the summer (if it's hot where you are at) or they will die. After that just once a week would probably be good.