Vine Issues - Please HELP!!!

[R Ziegler]

Hey all,
I have been following this site for over a2 yrsand have post a few times awhile back, just before I planted a row of Marquette and La Cresent. And I would like to plant a row of Petite Pearl or FrontenacBlanc (when it is released in 2012), but I will see how this first set does.


So I planted a few vines last year and needless to say the winter and late frost were not kind, but I can say after all that they seem to look great after aroughstart.However, there is a fewissues that I can not quite diagnos, but I have my suspicions. I took some pictures and thought thatone or more of you veteran grape growersshould be able to help me out. I will give my theory at the end as not to sway anyones thoughts.


A little back ground on my location first. I live in the suburbs south of St. Paul, MN in an area that seems to have fog quite frequently (not an ideal site, but it is what I have to work with) and our temps seem to fall below most of the surrounding areas.


first issue:

second issue:

Now here is my theory:






Issue 1 - This is on a Marquette vine. I think it might be a magnesium deficancy.


Issue 2 - This is on a La Cresent vine. This is the one I am really struggling with. It has the potential of being (IMO) either Phomopsis or Black Rot. Last year the La Cresent did this exact same thing, but it was really late in the season. They also got little black spot on the hardened off shoots so I am leaning more towards Phomopsis. And on top of this I think I might see the onset of some powdery mildew (didn't take a picture of this). It has rained or been extremely humid for almost the entire month of june. I think maybe 5 nice days out of 30.




So what is everyones thought on the matter?




Also, if there is anyone in the Twin Cities Metro Area who can tell me where to get Mancozeb and Endura, which seem to be the best overall combination to address anything, or what is comparable that I can get from Home Depot or Lowes. Since I have a limited budget.


Thanx for your replies in advance.

 

[Waldo]

Appleman......AL......Come here guys......hurry up....got a fellow winemaker in need here.

 

[AlFulchino]

first of all...why is Waldo posting at 3am?

Mr Zieggler...welcome..what you are seeing....actually what i am seeing is the normal process that a new vineyard owner gos thru when it is more hobby than business.... so first of all, no need to worry....rather than diagnose everything right here, let me just set you on the right path

i could be wrong but i doubt you are spraying anything...like i said, i could be wrong

also did you do a soil sample...at the least do you know your soil ph? If you ph is wrong that certain nutrients become locked up and unavailable to your plants

your vines are like kids...they need a stable home.....so give them a proper ph if you have not done so already...then the love of the nutrients can reach them

now....check out a sight like the IPM site from Cornell...i am in a bit of a rush to go out and spray so i cant grab the link at the moment but will later if Rich doesnt end up supplying it

in general, a fruit and orchard spray from home depot or similar store will take care of many things...but after looking at the ipm site i think you will want things like manzate, pristine etc etc etc....if you are in MN then there must be loads of farm vendors selling this stuff....check w any local farmer as to where he gets his stuff..i guarantee you that you are only 2-3 phone calls away from obtaining the right stuff

all three pics show some disease pressure.....there are loads of sites on the web that show what they all look like.....having said that, your pics do not show anything so severe that you cannot get a grip on it....get on a regular 10-14 or 14-21 day program depe3nding on how much rain/humidity etc that you get during the year

 

[grapeman]

I had typed in a long reply and hit the wrong button and lost it so I am condensing this time.


Thanks Al.


First pictures could be magnesium def. Sprinkle 1 teaspoon of epsoms salts around each vine and water in.
Link to deficiencies and diseases
http://grapes.msu.edu/id.htm




Last picture looks more like Black rot to me
Link to NY IPM site
http://nysipm.cornell.edu/factsheets/grapes/diseases/grape_br.pdf


Learn the disease and insect life cycles as well as what they look like. It makes treatment and diagnosis easier.


Sorry to be so short, but I have run out of time right now.

 

[R Ziegler]

You are right Al, I haven't sprayed anything as of yet, because I was trying to do plenty of research on the topic (must have missed the life cycle info though-oops).I guess I was trying to over diagnos the problem instead fof just trying something.
Nor have I gottena soil test. It has been much to wet recently, but it is suppose to dry up this week. It is one of my priorities, aftera few more days of dry weather to dig a couple holes and gather some dirt.


Thanx for the link Rich - I have the first one bookmarked and I will check out the other after I get back home from work.


Thanx again for the relpies.

 

[ibglowin]

Ha! That was funny. Waldo never sleeps.......

first of all...why is Waldo posting at 3am?

 

[AlFulchino]

R Z you will figure it all out...its one thing to read about diseases like black rot...another to actually see it and all together another to have the timing of what to do down so pat that its like waking up and brushing your teeth.....it all comes w time...and something like this is a learning experience..

i recently went to a wine fest that show cases our and all NH wines...i met someone who last yr lost his entire crop to downy mildew...the natural question from me was...did you spray? he said nope it rained every day..and he WAS right..it DID rain every day......but i reminded him that it didnt rain all day every day during that may june periond...in other words there were pockets of no rain lasting 1-say six hours...and during that time you NEED to spray

if you are a real prospective proprietor and i suspect you ARE....then you have to do everything...spray....soil ammendments etc etc

 

[grapeman]

To show you what we are up against in the east and probably where you are also, here is an example of a page from NEWA we have here in NY - unless it is lost due to the financial crisis in the state. It shows periods of infection for phomopsis and black rot. We have had a lot of periods of infection this year, so we need to be proactive and spray on time- or else we will get hit.
/images/uploads/20100630_110009_NEWA_Grape_Fore.doc

 

[R Ziegler]

I have only seen a few leaves with the infections so far, so I am not to overly worried - but I do want to stop it before it gets worse.
What fungicide do you use Rich, Al, Waldo or anyone else who would like to chime in?Rich and Al, youprobably buy it in large quantities (much to large for my 12 vine operation), but I am curious what you have found to be the most affective.

 

[AlFulchino]

this link is a MUST

http://ipmguidelines.org/Grapes/content/CH05/default-2.asp

i currently use Manzate Pro-Stick, some Elite, some Pristine and some JMS Stylet Oil.....as my base arsenal...also have some Captan...this has worked for me

i have some Carbaryl (sevin) and some danitol for insects just in case...but in four yrs have not sprayed one insecticide

 

[grapeman]

One thing to be aware of Rudy is that with any mancozeb product like Manzate (which I rely on heavily) is that you must stop using it 66 days or more before anticipated harvest - called a pre-harvest interval. I then switch over to Captan instead.

 

[AlFulchino]

yep....i usually start initiating pristine and others at that 66 day point

 

[R Ziegler]

well i have no worries this year as to when I should stop spraying - there won't be any harvest.
Next year will be the year to watch my timelines. I think Manzate states that you shouldn't use after bloom - does that sound about right?


I looked at my shelf of chemicals last night and have a bottle of Spectricide Immunox (sp?) from Home Depot and just for anyone else reading this itlooks it is only good for downy mildew - regarding grapevine issues.


It also states it covers something called Black Spot, which I questioned whether it was another name for Black Rot. But when I looked it up sounds like it is only something you get on roses, tomatoes and a few other things, and NOT grapevines. Am I wrong with my reading ro did I miss something?

 

[grapeman]

First of all you should always follow the label for your state for all pesticides, including fungicides. Manzate here is allowed after bloom, just follow the 66 days to harvest.


Black Rot and Black Spot are definitely two different diseases. You might be able to buy dithane at a big box store (mancozeb).

 

[AlFulchino]

second of all..you SHOULD spray this yr...because it reduces the number of disease innoculum going forward and it gives you practice before it is critical

there is lots of little things to take into acct like pressure, speed, coverage...personal protection equipment etc....learn now