Cellar Craft Varietal "Taste"

[dmmdtm]

So I've read a lot about KT and think I have a good understanding of that "taste". So far we've bottled a zin, cab, brunello, and a sirah/zin blend. All are good "reds" but frankly are indistinguishable from each other. The color and mouth feel do differ and reflect their varietal pedigree but the taste/flavor just all seem to be the same.

Is this common in kits? Is it something that time fixes?

I love this forum and it is an incredible source of info.

Derek

 

[cpfan]

What kits did you make? High end? Grape skins? How well degassed (residual CO2 can make wines taste similar)?

Personally I do note differences. Made two reds more-or-less side-by-side (so age of wine not a difference): Ken Ridge Classic Merlot and Legacy Velpolicella, both by Vineco. I prefer the Merlot, my wife the Valpolicella. Definitely they taste differently, and have different body.

Steve

 

[tonyt]

Derek, great topic. I hope lots of folks chime in. For me its yes and no. I have some kits that seem very similar especially the blends. The Petit Verdot, Syrah, Nero D Avola all have been true and distinct. I will anmit that I only do high end kits.

 

[s0615353]

I have only been making wine for about a year, but something I noticed is that how long that you leave the wines to bulk age has a lot to do with them tasting the same. Since most kits say to only age them for 45 days before bottling, many young wines can taste very similar side by side, especially when most kits use the exact same yeast strain and have the same ABV. Many of the big reds like you have described sometimes need a year or more before they develop their own unique varietal character.

 

[dmmdtm]

What kits did you make? High end? Grape skins? How well degassed (residual CO2 can make wines taste similar)?

Personally I do note differences. Made two reds more-or-less side-by-side (so age of wine not a difference): Ken Ridge Classic Merlot and Legacy Velpolicella, both by Vineco. I prefer the Merlot, my wife the Valpolicella. Definitely they taste differently, and have different body.

Steve

Steve - so all are kits have been high end (18 liter) and all but 2 were with skins. Most were WE and a couple of Cellar Classics. We've bottled 5 so far and currently have 2 in barrel aging, 1 ready to bottle, 1 waiting for barreling and 2 in primary.

Degassing for all has been with a vinolmatic vacuum racier/bottler and co2 hasn't been apparent.

There is a mouth-feel and appearance difference but not a true varietal taste difference so far. Based on your experience we are probably just not patient enough yet.

D.

 

[dmmdtm]

I have only been making wine for about a year, but something I noticed is that how long that you leave the wines to bulk age has a lot to do with them tasting the same. Since most kits say to only age them for 45 days before bottling, many young wines can taste very similar side by side, especially when most kits use the exact same yeast strain and have the same ABV. Many of the big reds like you have described sometimes need a year or more before they develop their own unique varietal character.

S - I'm betting you're onto something. We have been slightly bulk aging (all batches have spent time in the Vidal but all have been bottled in 90-100 days). We are setting aside 3 bottles per batch but are also drinking the core within months so further aging seems to be key.

D.

 

[SouthernChemist]

I think you're going to have to let time work it's magic. You might be surprised just how much things can change.

 

[Boatboy24]

I'm new to this hobby - started in March of last year - but my experience has been similar. I've done 12 batches so far - 9 of those were kits, and 5 of the 9 were Cellar Craft (3 Showcase/LE and 2 Sterling). I've noticed some strong similarities between them, though. Of my non-cellar craft kits, one was a port kit (and the only one I've done with an F-pack) and the other is too new. - two others are Vino Italiano. They are dirt cheap and really can't be compared to the CC. And while being very different wines (Cab and Barolo), there are still some striking similarities between them. I'm still chugging along with production and hoping that time will help to improve these and distinguish them from each other some more. I'm also branching out to other kit makers and have some Spagnols and Wine Expert kits on my "wish list" for this year. I'm expecting that time will be a friend to all of them. I just need to stop sampling them.

 

[Bacci]

If your using the supplied Hungrian Oak that comes with most these kits, that's the common element that is really noticable to the nose and taste IMO. I've either stopped adding extra HG oak at bulk ageing or switched to French/American Spirals exclusively with some kits. Getting ready to start a Cellar Craft ARG Malbec that came loaded down with Hung. Oak and going to switch it all out to French oak.

 

[wineh]

Steve - so all are kits have been high end (18 liter) and all but 2 were with skins. Most were WE and a couple of Cellar Classics. We've bottled 5 so far and currently have 2 in barrel aging, 1 ready to bottle, 1 waiting for barreling and 2 in primary.
D.

Is this a common thread for all your wines? Are they going in the same barrel for a similar amount of time? Perhaps you are getting "chez 2x4" in all your wines; it is possible for oak to overpower varietal flavor, especially in small barels I may get crucified for this but, how about trying to make a few kits according to the instructions and see what the kit manufacturer had in mind for the kits.

 

[robie]

I have found what Derek wrote to be true for me, too, especially for WE red kits but somewhat true with other red kits.
The wine tastes just fine, but they tend to taste more like a blend than a true single varietal.

Even commercial wines are not always pure varietal. They can legally add in certain percentages of other varietals. I guess this also happens with kits; I doubt there are any laws that govern the percentages for kits manufacturers.

This is much, much more of an issue with reds than with whites. IMO, whites tend to be more true varietal and don't seem to have as much kit taste.