Or, as they used to say before smart phones: "A man with one watch knows what time it is. A man with two is never sure."
? which sugar ? remember glucose is more fermentable than fructoseOne thing we learned in beginning chemistry is that every measurement is an approximation, which can be expressed at +/- the margin of error. All we need is a measurement that is accurate enough for our purposes. So a tape measure is good enough for most household projects, but for some engineering projects you might need an extremely accurate micrometer. Even if I had a micrometer, I would not use it for building a workbench. I suppose that the only 100% accurate measurement of sugar would be to find a way to count the sugar molecules.
At the laboratory where I worked there was a contractor laying paving slabs. One of the Engineering scientists stood looking at him work.One thing we learned in beginning chemistry is that every measurement is an approximation, which can be expressed at +/- the margin of error. All we need is a measurement that is accurate enough for our purposes. So a tape measure is good enough for most household projects, but for some engineering projects you might need an extremely accurate micrometer. Even if I had a micrometer, I would not use it for building a workbench. I suppose that the only 100% accurate measurement of sugar would be to find a way to count the sugar molecules.
However, this rabbit hole is interesting. It appeals to my inner nerd.
🤣🤣🤣anybody who is “going for it”
I disagree that the dissolved sugar is "by far and away" the principal contributor to SG. UC Davis suggests assuming an SG equivalent of .021 of non-fermentable solids in a must. 20-25% is not insignificant. And it's surprisingly close to the number I mentioned in my message #36.what is the expected “normal“ error by moving from a sucrose solution on the lab bench to an uncalibrated mixture of soluble solids.
soluble solids is important if moving from a juice in a dry season versus a wet season and always when moving from crop to crop to crop. ,,, I running apple juice technically should not use the same hydrometer as I would with grape juice, ,,, but it is pretty good to show when there isn’t more change so I won’t get expensive hydrometers.
Yes, wine yeast is definitely glucophilic. Given a choice it picks glucose over fructose every time. Though the glucose/fructose ratio is different for each yeast strain. I believe the the rule of thumb is that if there's residual sugar after fermentation there's 10 times more fructose than glucose. On a personal note, I've had a couple dessert wines with residual sugar. I definitely prefer the sweetness of the fructose over the sweetness from back sweetening.? which sugar ? remember glucose is more fermentable than fructose
This issue occurred to be earlier. If we can assume that most/all of the other dissolved solids remain dissolved, then the change in SG can give us a good idea of how much sugar was consumed by the yeast, and we can estimate ABV. If some of the solids are suspended rather than dissolved, it might be good to run the sample through a coffee filter before measuring OG.I disagree that the dissolved sugar is "by far and away" the principal contributor to SG. UC Davis suggests assuming an SG equivalent of .021 of non-fermentable solids in a must. 20-25% is not insignificant.
Stop thinking. Doing that was the best decision I made in my life.There are moments when I miss the innocent time of just plain ol' throwing things in a bucket.
- there are a variety of non sugar water soluble molecules, example northern/ wild grapes, current and grapefruit have a high percent acid, pear juice has sugar alcohol, gum Arabic has a polysaccharide, honey has higher sugars that don’t ferment, amino acids get incorporated into cells but don’t ferment, normal fermentations leave 1.5 to 2 gm/ liter of unusual reducing sugars as arabinose, xylose, pentodes, and if I am on the lab bench I could add lactose ( milk sugar) . . . . ie lots of molecules are water soluble and don’t ferment into alcohol.My thought is that the non-fermentables settle during fermentation and that's why we see mostly .990 rather than 1.000+. Do they contribute anything beneficial to the wine?
I know what you're saying.- there are a variety of non sugar water soluble molecules, example northern/ wild grapes, current and grapefruit have a high percent acid, pear juice has sugar alcohol, gum Arabic has a polysaccharide, honey has higher sugars that don’t ferment, amino acids get incorporated into cells but don’t ferment, normal fermentations leave 1.5 to 2 gm/ liter of unusual reducing sugars as arabinose, xylose, pentodes, and if I am on the lab bench I could add lactose ( milk sugar) . . . . ie lots of molecules are water soluble and don’t ferment into alcohol.
- alcohol has a lower density than water, therefore the more alcohol produces lower density.
- some yeast products as glycerol are more dense therefore this would increase SG above 1.000
- salts are the standard lab method to calibrate a hydrometer, and of course every organic acid ion comes along with an alkali salt
The system is a mixture, it will vary from fermentation to fermentation. ,,,, >>>> the commercial way to say one has a legal label is to measure the ABV
No can do. It's a curse. 🤣Stop thinking.
It seems I can find every single number except the one I want. To reproduce they like oxygen at 5ppm, normal atmospheric pressure would provide 8ppm. Ideal pH is around 4.0-4.5. Temperature 78F. And not too much sugar. Supposedly under those conditions if you started with 10 gr of yeast you would have 150 tons in a week. I imagine you'd need a few tons of sugar to maintain the proper solution.Sugar (nutrient) use by yeast will depend on strength of the colony, size of the colony, reproductive ability and activity, etc… I imagine the biggest factor would be colony size, which is measurable, multiplied by energy requirement, over time. Since colony size is variable to time and other factors, it would probably have to be measured several times. Once you have this factor, you could subtract your results from the overall (OG) to get a more accurate picture.
Great info.Dave,
Today‘s contribution to the cause…
During 20 days of retentostats cultivation, the specific growth rate gradually decreased from 0.025 h−1 to below 0.001 h−1, while culture viability remained above 80 %. The maintenance requirement for ATP (mATP) was estimated at 0.63 ± 0.04 mmol ATP (g biomass)−1 h−1, which is ca. 35 % lower than previously estimated for anaerobic retentostats.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4912818/
Metabolism in yeast cells can be manipulated by supplying different carbon sources: yeast grown on glucose rapidly proliferates by fermentation, analogous to tumour cells growing by aerobic glycolysis, whereas on non-fermentable carbon sources metabolism shifts towards respiration.
https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13059-016-1101-2
Different energy coupling strategies produces differing yields.
https://academic.oup.com/femsyr/article/12/4/387/670760
https://edisciplinas.usp.br/pluginf...ent/1/PQI5888 - Aula 9 - Yeast Metabolism.pdfView attachment 98232
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https://fermfacts.com/ferm-facts/the-right-foundation/
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When you're ready to come back...
The impact of brewing yeast cell age on fermentation performance, attenuation and flocculation
Chris D Powell, David E Quain, Katherine A Smart
FEMS Yeast Research, Volume 3, Issue 2, April 2003, Pages 149–157, impact of brewing yeast cell age on fermentation performance, attenuation and flocculation
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The impact of brewing yeast cell age on fermentation performance, attenuation and flocculation
Chris D Powell, David E Quain, Katherine A Smart
FEMS Yeast Research, Volume 3, Issue 2, April 2003, Pages 149–157, impact of brewing yeast cell age on fermentation performance, attenuation and flocculation
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