Removing proteins from mead

[vk7tpg]

Apart from the standard method of heating removing the proteins in honey before fermentation and finings after fermentation has finished, has anyone used proteinase or protease to remove proteins from honey or mead?

 

[Wade E]

Ive never boiled it or used that product and my Meads have won medals. My belief amongst others is that you boil off very delicate aromas when doing so.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

I wonder what your yeast would do after you digested all their surface proteins off It might work if you could deactivate the protease before you added your yeast? Crackedcork

Apart from the standard method of heating removing the proteins in honey before fermentation and finings after fermenation has finished, has anyone used proteinase or protease to remove proteins from honey or mead?

 

[vk7tpg]

CrackedCork raised some issues with yeast proteins I hadn't thought of. This maybe overcome by using the protease after fermentation. At the moment this discusion is theoretical. Interested in any comments at all!

 

[mmadmikes1]

I figure if you do it and tell me how it works, I will find out without the school of hard knocks degree this time

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

How about bentonite during primary, we are trying that with some of our unfilterred meads this year. What would be the source of your proteases? Would you add some meat tenderizer? Crackedcork

Apart from the standard method of heating removing the proteins in honey before fermentation and finings after fermenation has finished, has anyone used proteinase or protease to remove proteins from honey or mead?

 

[vk7tpg]

I am at present trying to source some protease that has some chance of working post fermentation in alcoholic and acidic conditions. It may well be one used for meat tenderizing but there is a range of proteases available from my research so far. Is the reason that there has been few responses to my original posting that it has been tried before and failed or that finings like bentonite work for everyone all the time. Bentonite has not worked in my case.

 

[wvbrewer]

In the meads I have made they have cleared with a little time and cooler storage temps. I have not used any finings in them.

 

[vk7tpg]

wvbrewer,
You have raised some points I haven't mentioned. This mead is 2 1/2 years old and stored in quite a cool spot in my cellar. I have tried quite a few different fining agents with negative results in all cases. I am convinced that it is proteins causing the problem so hence I thought that a protease may be the answer. I too normally don't have any problems with clearing except in this one case.

 

[Wade E]

Cracked Cork brought something up that I didnt even think of but that I do use for every batch of my wine. That is bentonite and that rids your wines of what would be a protein haze and also helps to drop out the bigger solids while in primary. That has been a practice of mine since I started making wine.

 

[fatbloke]

So, what happens when the haze (possibly protein related) is caused by the back sweetening with honey ?

That's the issue I've had and can only get bentonite here, sparkoloid doesn't seem to be available and the shipping costs are prohibitive.

Apparently, hazes like that should drop out, but the one I've got problems with at the moment was sweetened about a year ago and it's still cloudy - the original sediment dropped out nicely and it cleared but then I back sweetened it with the same honey, which causes it to cloud up and it's stayed like that since.

Thinking of trying 2 part finings on it to see if they do they job or not.....

 

[Wade E]

Against everything Ive read about filtering Ive had this same problem and I filtered it and it came out crystal clear. I always been told not to even try to filter a wine that wasnt already crystal clear but I had already fined this wine once and didnt want to subject it to another fining. Even if you added bentonite in the beginning its not considered fining so if you havent done it since primary try the bentonite now. I dont typically use fining agents unless I have a problem like this anymore but for some reason I made a kit a few weeks back and followed the instructions and used the fining agent and now the wine is sitting on a bunch of sediment but still isnt clear. Maybe be another victim to filter.

 

[fatbloke]

Against everything Ive read about filtering Ive had this same problem and I filtered it and it came out crystal clear. I always been told not to even try to filter a wine that wasnt already crystal clear but I had already fined this wine once and didnt want to subject it to another fining. Even if you added bentonite in the beginning its not considered fining so if you havent done it since primary try the bentonite now. I dont typically use fining agents unless I have a problem like this anymore but for some reason I made a kit a few weeks back and followed the instructions and used the fining agent and now the wine is sitting on a bunch of sediment but still isnt clear. Maybe be another victim to filter.

Yeah, was sort of thinking along those sort of lines anyway Wade. Just that I was looking around to see if anyone else might have found a "magic bullet" solution for protein type back sweetening hazes.

Other suggestions have been to (against normal theories on this) back sweeten almost immediately after the ferment has finished and after the initial rack off the lees, but after it's been sorbate/sulphited. That way (in theory of course) as the normal yeast and other debris settle out, it might drag the haze from the back sweetening as well.

So rather than back sweeten to taste, back sweeten to a set of numbers, something like 1.010 to 1.020 (like mine sweet, just not dessert sweet like 1.040 etc..).

Can't be arsed to go to the HBS today, but as I've finished work till the 4th Jan now, I'll go next week when the weather isn't too shite (currently can't make it's mind up whether it wants to rain, snow or freeze....).

I've got some 2 part finings in stock (Kwiklear I think they're called) so if necessary I can try those, but would like to try bentonite first as I understand that it's a bit more gentle than the 2 part type ones......

regards

fatbloke

p.s. and I've also got enough pumping/filtering kit i.e. a mini-jet pump/filter, but also an enolmatic with the filter housing and a 1 micron cartridge, so I might try the minijet with the course filter first (it's new and I haven't used it yet...)

 

[Wade E]

Surely use a coarse filter first so as not to have problems with clogging a fine filter. I am an advocate of sweetening early on myself and I just stay unser the sweetness I want as it comes out a bit more with some aging. I get it close and then test it after bulk aging and if needed add just a tad more and that little more isnt enough to cloud it up.

 

[fatbloke]

Surely use a coarse filter first so as not to have problems with clogging a fine filter. I am an advocate of sweetening early on myself and I just stay unser the sweetness I want as it comes out a bit more with some aging. I get it close and then test it after bulk aging and if needed add just a tad more and that little more isnt enough to cloud it up.

Now that's a bloody good idea, I suspect I'll have to give that a go. Then I'd only need to hit it with 2 part finings if really necessary.......

regards

fatbloke