Pre-fermentation Soaking

[johngg123]

When making RED wine (cabernet sav) from fresh grapes is it advisable to do "cold soaking" or "soaking"? This is where you leave the crushed grape skins in contact with the juice for a few days before adding the yeast. I assume Kmeta is added to prevent spoilage during the soak.

The reason I ask is that there is no description of this practice in the "More Wine" manuals or Jeff Cox's book. Jeff talks about skin contact time after pitching the yeast but no mention of it before.

Here a Crushpad video all about soaking:
http://on.aol.com/video/wine-making-at-crushpad--wine-color-35023939

I've only make kits up to this point but plan on getting 150lbs of fresh grapes this september (from west coast grapes.) So I'm trying to wrap my head around all the additional steps before I'm up to my knees in must.

What's everyone's opinion on this?

John

 

[mvcrews]

The benefits of cold soaking are unproven, but many winemakers still practice it anyways. I don't think it's something home winemakers should do as it adds an extra element of risk with no clear reward. You especially shouldn't cold soak if you don't have temperature controls or inert gases (or dry ice) to protect the must during the soak.

 

[robie]

That's great advice! I would follow it. As you get experienced you can start weighing to potential benefits of a pre-cold soak. As mentioned, bad things can happen to the must if you are not careful.

 

[Calamity Cellars]

The technique you are referring to is, as stated above, called cold soaking. Also as stated above it is a semi risky evolution that has very little proven results. Many winemakers use this technique when making lighter reds such as pinot noir in an attempt to increase color and flavor extraction from the skins. I don't blame them for trying but much of the evidence this works is anecdotal. WSU did a multi-batch study on color extraction and found cold soak did not increase color in the final bottled wine. Color comes from the skins and is made up of water soluble components. All water soluble components dissolve at a higher and more complete rate when temperature in increased. (That's why it's easier to clean you and your stuff with hot water...think showers, dish & clothes washers...want it cleaner turn up the heat.) If you really want the benefits of higher color and flavor extraction try taking steps to increase your fermentation temperatures. This will give you much better results with little to no risk and is very easy to do as compared to the difficulty in cold soaking.

 

[robie]

The technique you are referring to is, as stated above, called cold soaking. Also as stated above it is a semi risky evolution that has very little proven results. Many winemakers use this technique when making lighter reds such as pinot noir in an attempt to increase color and flavor extraction from the skins. I don't blame them for trying but much of the evidence this works is anecdotal. WSU did a multi-batch study on color extraction and found cold soak did not increase color in the final bottled wine. Color comes from the skins and is made up of water soluble components. All water soluble components dissolve at a higher and more complete rate when temperature in increased. (That's why it's easier to clean you and your stuff with hot water...think showers, dish & clothes washers...want it cleaner turn up the heat.) If you really want the benefits of higher color and flavor extraction try taking steps to increase your fermentation temperatures. This will give you much better results with little to no risk and is very easy to do as compared to the difficulty in cold soaking.

Some people have a hard time with the idea of letting the temperature go up, but I agree with you whole-heartedly.

 

[Calamity Cellars]

Some people have a hard time with the idea of letting the temperature go up, but I agree with you whole-heartedly.

Those people should try my wines.....

 

[johngg123]

Thanks for all the advice! Now I just have to decide whether or not to do extended maceration...

 

[JohnT]

I soak for 24 hours. This is mostly to allow the k-meta I add to my must a chance to dissipate and to also allow the must to warm up. I have been doing this since my very first batch of wine. I do believe that the extra day does give the wine at least some increase in extraction.

Since I have never made a batch of wine without a 24 hour cold soak, I could not tell you for certain if this has any effect on the level of extraction in the final product. I have got to think, however, that there is at least some level of effect.

The only reason I say this is that I always stir my must before I add my yeast. I can notice a significant change in the hue of the free run juice.
Granted, higher temp would do a lot to effect the amount of extraction, as well as punch-downs/pump-overs. But, like you said, these elements are water soluable.

So I need to ask the question.. Is there a finite level of extaction that can occur reguardless of the level contained in the skins? Is there such a thing as a "saturation-point" when it comes to extraction?

 

[Calamity Cellars]

John,

Your procedure of adding so2 and waiting 24 hours to pitch yeast is standard enological protocol and a very good idea for the reasons you stated.

The color extraction you see during that 24 hour period is the primary source of the concept that cold soaking will have an effect on the final wine. The fact is that there is extremely little to no increased extraction increase in the bottled wine. The extremely easily extracted components you are seeing will come out of the skins regardless of extending the soak.

There is, however, increased extraction with increased temperature during fermentation. As I stated in my previous post, get those fermentation temps up if you want darker more flavorful wines.

Alan

 

[JohnT]

John,

Your procedure of adding so2 and waiting 24 hours to pitch yeast is standard enological protocol and a very good idea for the reasons you stated.

The color extraction you see during that 24 hour period is the primary source of the concept that cold soaking will have an effect on the final wine. The fact is that there is extremely little to no increased extraction increase in the bottled wine. The extremely easily extracted components you are seeing will come out of the skins regardless of extending the soak.

There is, however, increased extraction with increased temperature during fermentation. As I stated in my previous post, get those fermentation temps up if you want darker more flavorful wines.

Alan

I agree with all above. The only question I have is this... Is there a point of saturation where nothing more is gained from the skins?

 

[Calamity Cellars]

I agree with all above. The only question I have is this... Is there a point of saturation where nothing more is gained from the skins?

Sure, but who knows what that is. I think that answer would cross over from a practical to theoretical discussion.