Ph

[nafarmboy]

I got my MW102 ph meter in today, I am a little confused, I found the recommended ph levels for different wines and how to lower or raise ph. While researching this I also read about how to check acid levels and how ph levels and acid levels are different. My question is......do I concentrate on getting ph level correct and let the ruff edge drag or do I have to worry about the acid titration as well?
Nafarmboy

 

[Runningwolf]

You want to try and keep your ph level in check. If your acid is way off it is also best to try and correct this before fermentation. Doing so will also affect your ph level so keep that in mind. Acid can also be a personal thing as some folks like certain wines with a bit more acid to the.

 

[nafarmboy]

Dan, generally speaking ph and acid are going to run together.....ph high acid low or ph low acid high, but not always in proportion. So I guess it is kind of a balancing act to raise or lower the acid without lowering our raising ph to much ....... as far as correcting before fermenting.......I assume that would be so that the fermentation goes better and it would help the taste of the wine if
corrected before it is fermented. Does it sound like I'm getting a grip on the issue or am I making any sense?

 

[Deezil]

generally speaking ph and acid are going to run together.....ph high acid low or ph low acid high, but not always in proportion. So I guess it is kind of a balancing act to raise or lower the acid without lowering our raising ph to much

From what i understand (read not sure if im 100% / im pretty tired) pH is a measurement of all the unbound hydrogen atoms, and the titration process involved with TA readings actually unbinds some additional hydrogen atoms (too much chemistry for most) but thats why they're related but not on a sliding scale - two wines can have the same pH but different TA readings..

A low pH is acidic and a high pH is alkaline
I'm still working on the "buy a pH meter" thing though, so i havent much experience with the correlation but from what i can recall, thats kinda how it works..

Pretty sure if you have the equipment, you want to take both measurements into consideration before making any acidity adjustments, and im pretty sure one trumps the other but for the life of me (lack of sleep) i cant remember which it is..

as far as correcting before fermenting.......I assume that would be so that the fermentation goes better and it would help the taste of the wine if
corrected before it is fermented.

In a nutshell, you're right... When the acids are off, you can have a stuck fermentation, off smells / compounds, and sometimes color issues

 

[nafarmboy]

When I made the op I was still at work and just got my ph meter, home now and calibrated meter and checked my scuppernog and I think it is good. ph was 3.32 and T.A. was best I can tell around .6%. Have some strawberry I will check tomorrow. Thanks for the replies. nafarmboy

 

[roadwarriorsvt]

I just got my PH meter in the mail a couple of days ago myself. I'll be checking the PH and acidity of my ageing wines as well as future must. I went with the MW101.

 

[Turock]

From my experience, whether or not to concentrate on TA depends on what you're making wine from.

Calif type grapes are more fussy to work with and it's wise to balance both the TA and PH when required.

Cool weather grapes such as concord,concord-type grapes and fruits aren't as fussy and you get very good wine by paying more attention to the PH. PH affects flavor more than one would suspect. You can take an initial must sample and it can taste like dishwater when the PH is too high. Begin to lower it,and the flavor starts to come up. By bench testing, adding a little more acid, and tasting will show you where the juice has the best flavor. Just a couple weeks ago, we were working with peach made from all fruit,no water. The beginning sample was totally tasteless. When we got to a PH of 3.35 the flavor exploded on it.

When you have musts that are too acid, lowering the PH will bring the wine into balance. Do all your acid adjustments at the primary before pitching yeast. Your wines will be much better and you won't be trying to adjust them when you are trying to bottle.

 

[winemaker_3352]

I agree - I just ordered the Vinmetrica SC200 - waiting for that to come in the mail - that will take PH and TA readings...

This has been my biggest struggle - trying to adjust TA and PH using PH strips and TA Test kit - they give a general idea of where you are at - but not a precise measurement - so it is difficult to get these both in check.

 

[BeerAlchemist]

This has been my biggest struggle - trying to adjust TA and PH using PH strips and TA Test kit - they give a general idea of where you are at - but not a precise measurement - so it is difficult to get these both in check.

I completely agree, pH strips are way to vague to get a solid read. I gave up on them years ago for brewing needs and got a quality digital meter now am happy to already have a good tool as I endeavor into wines.

 

[nafarmboy]

Howdy, After I had a chance to play around with my new meter I have a little better grip on the ph verses ta deal. I put some pineapple together last night and decided to make use of the meter. after I got my must put together and SG like I wanted it, I took a ph reading and did an acid test. The ph was almost perfect 3.32 but my ta was only .41 %. it was a 3 gallon batch with about a half gallon extra for topping off during the racking. I wanted to add enough acid blend to bring the acid up to .65% and using the vine calculator, called for like 5 tsp, after I added it I was scared it would have brought the ph way down, it raised my acid level way up to .68% but only lowered my ph down to 3.12. I added 1/2 gallon of water and acid level came back down to .65% and ph back up to 3.18. I am good with that so I added enough sugar (again using the wine calculator and checking with hydrometer) to bring my SG back to 1.08 that I wanted and now I have a whole gallon to top off with and sample of course . What I figured out was that you can change to ta a lot without altering the ph very much and the ph range is critcal but wider than the acid range. nafarmboy

 

[BobF]

TA is a measure of acid volume.
pH is a measure of acid strength.

The norm is more acid = lower pH, less acid = higher pH.

BUT, like most things wine related, there are other factors. Different musts & wines have varying degrees of "pH buffering" dependent on things like the amount of potassium in the must/wine.

So, generally speaking, if pH is high you can add acid to lower it, BUT b/c of buffering effects, it might require more acid for one wine than it would for another. Sometimes you have to accept a higher or lower acid or pH than would be considered ideal because of the overall makeup of the wine you're making.

This is why it's important to test both. Only with both values can you make informed balance/compromise decisions.

Having said all of that, there are those that only concern themselves with getting a certain pH value. Even in those cases it is best to know where you're starting for both values.

Having the ability to accurately test and determine direction based on the results is the Science. The Art is how far you decide to take them.