ML advice needed

[Macuser]

I am making Chilean Malbec from juice. I added the ML Culture (White Labs WLP675) on 4/18, immediately after racking from my primary fermenter to a carboy. On 6/18, I tested with paper chromatography and ML was not complete. I hooked up my brew belt and waited 2 weeks. I tested again and ML is still not complete.

Is there any issues with leaving it in the carboy without racking while it completes ML? Or should I rack it gains move it off the lees?

 

[Deezil]

Did you use any type of MLB nutrient, or leave the wine on sur lees prior to MLB-pitch?

Thats my gut-feeling as to why it might have stuck..

 

[sdelli]

Lots of info on this forum about White Labs..... Not a real good choice. I used it only once. At this point if it was mine I would try a nutrient like told for a couple more weeks.... Then move on to stabilize. On my latest I used Bachus with a nutrient..... It was done in three weeks!

 

[Turock]

I agree with sdelli. I don't know what's wrong with that White Labs culture but it became stuck for us too. I'll never use it again. We re-inoculated with Bacchus and it finished in about 3 weeks. You might want to consider doing that if the chromo test shows no further conversion.

 

[Pumpkinman]

I've "warned" more than a few people against using White Labs MLB.

I've tried 3 different MLB:

• White Labs WLP675 - very poor performance, stuck fermentation, used VP41, MLF was completed successfully.
• Viniflora CH16 I believe - Slow to start, MLF went on for some time, not too bad.
• Lalvin VP41 - MLF started fast, visible MLF as we speak.

The biggest problem is that a lot of LHBS do not carry the better strains of MLB, some cannot even explain the differences, (I worked at a Home brew shop, trust me when I tell you that the owner was a knucklehead that should have never given any advice about winemaking to anyone!), and, a lot of winemakers jump for the under $10.00 White Labs MLB, before spending $30.00 on the better MLB.

Some of the more expensive MLB such as VP41 and Lalvin 31 that were developed for use in wineries, were developed to withstand greater PH ranges, and SO2, and have greater alcohol tolerances, this allows home winemakers to use superior MLB strains successfully even if stressful conditions such as low temp or low PH that other MLB strains cannot tolerate.

As Turock stated, Bacchus is a very good alternative, I read somewhere that it is the same Lalvin 31, just packaged for the home winemaker. I'd re-inoculate.

Here is some info on

VP41

and

Lalvin 31

 

[Turock]

Pumpkinmn---Unfortunately, I didn't read that warning from you until we had already dosed our Pinot Noir with the White Labs culture. But when it became stuck, I remembered what you said and knew immediately what was going on because we had ideal conditions for the MLF.

Big thumbs up to you for the warning---everyone should listen to your advice on it.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Turock,
Thanks for the kind words. We all learn from each other.
Sometimes it is hard to find the better strains, hopefully others will read this and won't go through the same stuck fermentations that we have gone through.

 

[Turock]

Pumpkinman----Have you ever frozen the MLB for future use once you've racked it off? We re-used the Bacchus from the Pinot Noir in a Cab, then racked it off once the Cab was done and froze it just to see if this can be done successfully. Never tried it before and never heard from anyone who's done this. That Bacchus is getting expensive--up to $18.00 from $14.00.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Turock,
No, I've never tried it, but it sounds interesting! Since I usually make several different 6 gallon batches at the same time, I usually just buy the VP41, it is a bit pricey at $32.00, but it will inoculate up to 66 gallons. This time I inoculated my Cab Sav, Malbec, and a buddies 18 gallons of Merlot.

 

[Turock]

So in your opinion, what's the advantage of the VP41 over Bacchus? I know there's some of these MLB's out there that are supposed to deliver better buttery flavor. I really like that butter flavor. That's why we used the White Labs culture because it was supposed to be more buttery---not sure how it can ever accomplish THAT when it can't even get started!

We could never use enough MLB that doses 66 gallons. I guess that's why we like Bacchus because you can get small amounts of it for just one or two carboys. Just curious about the result of the flavor of the MLF when using the VP41.

 

[robie]

I am making Chilean Malbec from juice. I added the ML Culture (White Labs WLP675) on 4/18, immediately after racking from my primary fermenter to a carboy. On 6/18, I tested with paper chromatography and ML was not complete. I hooked up my brew belt and waited 2 weeks. I tested again and ML is still not complete.

Is there any issues with leaving it in the carboy without racking while it completes ML? Or should I rack it gains move it off the lees?

Have you measured the free SO2 and pH levels?

4/18? That's well over 2 months on the lite lees. You are going to get some results of surlees, which is not always a great thing for a Malbec. I think I'd rack off the lees, add some MLF nutrients, a better MLB, top off the wine, and see what happens in another 3 weeks. Make sure the temperature, free SO2, and pH are in the proper range for the MLB. I wonder if one of these levels was not right for the MLB you were using.

 

[Pumpkinman]

Turock,
I think your best bet is Bacchus, it is a good MLB with proven results and very cost effective.