Foodsaver Degassing

[dcteague]

So I'm getting closer to my first batch and making sure I have most of the equipment available in time. In looking at how to handle degassing, I came across the foodsaver method. Coincidentally, our family got one as a gift this year, and out of curiosity, I attached a vacuum gauge for my auto work, and the accessory line pulls exactly 20 psi of vacuum. It then slowly begins to drop once reached. Is this sufficient without creating the risk of an imploding the bottle - its a glass carboy, 3 gallon. I'm thinking of attaching a small valve inline with the pump system to allow some leakage to control the vacuum build-up in case it begins to pull too much and creates an overflow situation.

Any thoughts? The equipment is already present, so there's really only the cost of the extra valve I'm considering to control the negative pressure.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Dont do it, the food saver was not built to hold a vacuum for a long time, I overheated my wifes and it stopped working on the first carboy. You would be much better off with a drill whip. WVMJ

 

[ShawnDTurner]

I have accessory ports coming as well with my Food Saver, I was thinking of degassing as well. Would it also work to transfer fluid from on carboy to another?

 

[ShawnDTurner]

found this
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMW7I4d9wf8[/ame]

 

[vacuumpumpman]

The foodsaver will work for a short period of time - considering it is not designed for this purpose. I do sell all the necessary attachements if you do decided to go that route - I would highly recommend a vacuum resvouir, 2 hole bung , vacuum release, and the bottling attachement - see my webpage under accessories for more details

thanks steve

 

[dcteague]

I was playing around with the foodsaver and the system isn't intended to hold a vacuum, but in measuring its initial vacuum pull, it gets to 20psi, then stops, and the vacuum is released automatically. This is the same amount of vacuum it created when I attached the system to one of their own bags, so if there's any issue with using one, it would seem it is more about continuously running it once vacuum is released. I bought an air-tight valve to put in line with the pump and it holds pressure at 20psi once I close it off, so I'm thinking I'd only need to run the system once to bring it to 20psi, lock it and let the pressure hold until its degassed no?

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I was playing around with the foodsaver and the system isn't intended to hold a vacuum, but in measuring its initial vacuum pull, it gets to 20psi, then stops, and the vacuum is released automatically. This is the same amount of vacuum it created when I attached the system to one of their own bags, so if there's any issue with using one, it would seem it is more about continuously running it once vacuum is released. I bought an air-tight valve to put in line with the pump and it holds pressure at 20psi once I close it off, so I'm thinking I'd only need to run the system once to bring it to 20psi, lock it and let the pressure hold until its degassed no?

As soon as you reach 20 psi - any CO2 will be release causing your vacuum to decrease instantly - similiar to using a hand pump

 

[dcteague]

Okay, makes sense now why vacuum decreased. So you really need a constant pump action to keep pressure stable at 20psi. What if I attached the tubing to the intake of my small compressor I use for indoor trim work? Its a small 1 gallon compressor that is rated to 100psi. I'm assuming if I use the check valve I have to regulate the vacuum I could easily degas the carboy without any risk of implosion, and it has sufficient power. I could just disconnect the other end so its constantly running during the degassing effort.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

And suck moisture right into your compressor, it will work for a few batches. You are not going to come up with a genuine new method that works better than: Time is also a pretty good degasser. Those whips you put on a drill work too. After fooling around with all those methods most people just by a real vacum pump or just let their wine set around for a year or more. WVMJ

 

[vacuumpumpman]

All I can tell you is I have extensive hours in developing the Allinone . I also made it reasonably priced at 195 dollars that degasses,transfers,bottles and can filter.
Just becareful as you experiment that you or anyone around you do not get hurt in the process. Sorry for putting it so blunt, but there is no other nice way of saying it

Thanks steve

 

[Duster]

I tried this before, it worked for a short while but I did burn the motor up on the food savor after about the third carboy.
I wouldn't recommend it

 

[pete1325]

I agree with Steve, the Allinone is probably the best device out there for the guy who makes a few hundred gallons a year, the thing does everything. However, for the guy who makes a few batches a year or only in the fall like a lot of us $200 might be out of their budget.

I have been wrestling with this "degassing" issue for a few years. I make wine from grapes and juice (reds only)every fall, 12-24 gallons....no kits. I normally bulk age for 8-10 months before bottling and only bottle because I need the carboys for the new stuff. Sometimes my wine degasses on their own, sometimes even after 8-10 months they have some fizz, inwhich I have always used the wand/drill method of degassing.

I Just recently bought a hand opperated brake bleeding device ($25) from HF to do a little experimenting. I'm amazed how well it actually works. I pulled about 15 inches and could see it degass.....as the CO2 was being pulled from the wine it decreased in inches, pumped it up again, same thing. Continued until it held at around 5 and assumed it was degassed.

The neat thing about this experiment was that I pulled a lot of CO2 from the grape wine but not much from the juice wine......in fact, the Pinot Noir almost had no CO2 after sitting since October. By the way the wine is in my basement at a temp of 64......I know, not normally good for degassing on their own.

By the way, the HF pump came with hoses, fittings and canister......all did was stuck one end of the hose in a bung the other on the device and went to degassing.

 

[dcteague]

I wonder how much pull a traditional shop vac could produce if it were just hooked up to an overflow bottle with a relief valve to make sure you don't create too much vacuum. I'll have to hook my small one up to the gauge I have and see what happens. I'm guessing it isn't going to have much but it would be an interesting experiment nonetheless.

I know there's an easier way - buying a real one. But to me the diy aspect of wine making really extends to some of the equipment as well. I'm not going to go so far as to blow my own carboys (or implode them), but the simple things like making your own degassing system, a better corker, etc. are all somewhat fun to try. Safety is priority one, then saving money....

 

[dcteague]

Well a shop vac isn't enough pull, only got to 5hg.

I'll probably try one more thing then just go find a real vacuum pump.

 

[roger80465]

I am using a food saver that has stopped sealing. I threw it away and then read about using it for degassing, so I retrieved it from the trash. So far, I have degassed 3-4 batches with no problem. Who knows how long it will last but it seems to do the job pretty well. After using it a couple times on the first batch, I then used a whip on it to make sure it was fully degassed and I got pretty much nothing else out of it. So I will continue to use it this way until it dies completely. Figure I have nothing to lose.

Roger

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Come one, show us the pictures with the hose duct tapped to your carboy WVMJ

Well a shop vac isn't enough pull, only got to 5hg.

I'll probably try one more thing then just go find a real vacuum pump.

 

[dcteague]

No, I didn't do that - I had a small shop vac and bought a mini-attachment set that I connected standard tubing to and my vacuum gauge. It only pulled about 5hg.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Then maybe you should have used some duct tape to seal the leaks We have all tried to do it without breaking down and getting a pump. A pump or time is about the best choices. Start looking on ebay for a used oil-less vacuum, its really the only reliable way to do it, you dont have to pump on a mitivac for 2 weeks, no cramps, just make sure there is a reservoir between the wine and pump and a filter between the reservoir and pump is nice to keep vapor out of your pump. Good luck, WVMJ

 

[dcteague]

So you'll all get a good laugh at my last attempt.

I stopped by Lowes tonight, thinking of 2 options -

1 - a home made vacuum pump that's manual made from pvc
2 - a vacuum pump that is driven by a small electric pump housed inside a sealed bucket.

Option 1 was the cheapest, so I started there. I bought a 2' length of pvc pipe, pvc caps, a few fender washers and rubber washers, 1/4 by 28 pitch nuts, threaded tube adapter, and the rods used to secure screen doors (they're long shafts with threads at one end and a flat part at the other). Probably all cost about $10. I sealed one end, drilled it so that I could screw the tub adapter in, and then bolted the washers onto the end of the rod and sandwiched the rubber gasket in between. When it was all done, I pulled up to 25 in/hg and it held pretty well without much sealant. I'll post a pic of the setup this weekend. It essentially looks like a home made bike pump in reverse. You pull on the shaft, and it creates vacuum.

Next one is the other option, just to see if it will work.