First batch ever (making it from grapes)...assorted questions

[Machine]

Managed to grow enough wine grapes to give me what appears to be a little over a gallon of juice. Odd mix of baco noir, pinot noir, and some merlot and cab frank. Have it partially crushed in a large pot sitting in my fridge, and just received kit to make a 1-gallon batch.

Juice is very tasty, seems purple and acidic, not sickly sweet. Took grapes off stems, crushed by hand in advance of impending winemaking. Will check for adequate acidity and sugar levels. However, one thing I noticed is that the juice, even with skins and seeds in the mix for more than 3 weeks now in the fridge, is not showing much if any tannin. I love tannic young wines so maybe its my tolerance for tannin that is affecting what I'm detecting...but is there a tannin level that is inappropriately low for red wines? I didn't buy any tannin supplement to add to the mix, as i never anticipated that this would be an issue.

On another note I do have some french oak chips, I assume/know that these will impart at least some tannic backbone to the mix, but not sure (a) the volume of chips that I should add to 1 Gallon of juice, (b) at what stage I should add/leave the chips in (they are pretty small so even if they expand a bit I think I'll be able to get them out of my carboy), or (c) whether they will add adequate tannin, or whether I will need to amend the mix.

Also, do I need to add a pectic enzyme to the must and let it sit for 12-24 hours before I add a crushed campden tablet and add yeast? I don't have any pectic enzyme.

And I bought a Vintner's best 1-gallon wine making kit, plus an extra 1-gallon carboy, acid test, tartaric acid, hydrometer, wine thief, french oak chips (medium toast), some RC-212, some DAP, and a nylon straining bag.

Other than these questions, I think I have all I need to get started...and think I'll have several other questions as the process moves along. Not expecting any miracles, but would be great to actually end up with a gallon or so of something that is drinkable and is from my garden.



Any help/advice would be appreciated.
Thanks!

 

[JohnT]

Welcome to the forum, you asked a lot of good questions..

First, There is no real correct level of tannins for any wine. Some wines will provide more tannins than others. From your reading, that the grapes tasted acidic and not sickly sweet, it seems to me that the grapes were a little on the unripe side. this could explain the lack of perceptable tannins. Also, you are macerating in the fridge, this could also explain a lack of tannins.

I would recommend that you ferment with the skins (I assume you have not yet pitched your yeast) and then see how the tannins shape up under warmer conditions.

As far as oak, the amount and type of oak that you would use is really a matter of taste. That being said, I would recommend that you add 1 oz of oak chips per gallon. This will add some additional tannic structure to your wine.

Not sure if the pectic enzyme is needed since your grapes have been sitting around for 3 weeks after being crushed. You should add your campden tablet 24 hours before adding your yeast. The campden table acts like a sterilizer and will kill/stun yeast if added together.

 

[Machine]

Thanks John. Weather this year was iffy up here, late summer with too many cold nights early on, torrential rains, searing heatwaves for weeks, more torrential rains, weeks of low temps, then more heatwaves. Also had plants decimated by japanese beetles...ugh. Waited far too long to control them, won't make the same mistake next year...if weather and insects cooperate I think I can probably pull 80 pounds of fruit next year. When I did pull grapes last year they seemed to have more tannin, so ripeness may be an issue, or lack of including stems, or maybe even lack of including really underripe grapes (so no yummy bitterness and tannin from those).

Once grapes are up to temp hopefully they will be more balanced than they seem now. Hopefully the RC-212 also does some work extracting a bit more from seeds and skins? Yeast will probably be pitched thursday or friday night, after I have a chance to sterilize everything and let the must sit in the fermenting bucket with campden for a day.

I tend to be fairly immune to oak but I was thinking max of 1 ounce would work, but I do want to be careful and not overdo anything.

Looking forward to getting this moving, but also have plenty of patience to analyze and adjust and let the ingredients and components do their thing...

 

[JohnT]

RC-212 is an excellent yeast. I use it most of the time for reds. I do believe that tannins will improve as the wine ferments on the skins. Good luck and do not delay in asking any questions as your wine progresses.

 

[Machine]

Very much obliged, will try to keep a good eye/good notes on progress for this initial attempt, and try to ask about any apparent anomalies before its too late

 

[JohnT]

One last thing about RC-212. Make sure you add the appropriate amount of yeast neutriant.

 

[Machine]

Is DAP adequate for this purpose? Some things I read said 'sure', others seemed to suggest that other additives were required, or at least were suggested.

 

[JohnT]

Is DAP adequate for this purpose? Some things I read said 'sure', others seemed to suggest that other additives were required, or at least were suggested.

DAP is fine to use but I normally use fermax. It is all about nitrogen. With DAP, yeast does not need to work as hard to get at the nitrogen then with fermax. IMHO fermax promotes a more calm and steady release of notrogen.

 

[Machine]

If I can easily get my hands on some fermax in the next day or so I'll use that, otherwise I'm stuck with DAP for this batch.

Another question...given that I'm using grapes for this batch, is it really more beneficial overall to use a nylon bag for the grapes than it is just to pour the grapes into the primary and punch them down? I realize it'll be easier to rack off juice if the skins, pulp, and seeds are trapped in the bag, but won't it also be more difficult for the yeast to do its work on the must?

 

[JohnT]

I normally do not use any sort of bag. Here is what I do....

Steps..

1) Skim the raft off of the free run juice and toss into press using a Large strainer (mine are 13 inches in diameter).

2) I use a 5 gal bucket to catch the juice from the press and I place another 13 inch strainer over the bucket to catch any large materials that do not belong.

3) Once the raft has been scooped I have a length of 4" pvc pipe with 100's of little, tiny holes drilled. In other words, I have a long tube shaped strainer. I place this into the free run juice and use a pump to transfer the free run juice from inside the tube to my secondary.

4) Once all of the free run juice is pumped, I dump anything that remains (in the primary) into the press, lock the press, and begin to gently add pressure.

 

[Machine]

If my batch was larger than 1 Gallon I think I'd prefer a method like yours to using a bag, maybe for next year's hopefully larger batch I can set up something a little more involved than this years' experiment, especially if I can pick up some used equipment (seems to be a lot scattered around here and there).

On another note, I was still going to see if I could find some pectic enzyme (as my mix could be more extracted and also less cloudy), but doesn't look like it will be easy to find in Canada. Might delay the whole process by a few days but after I take a look again tonight at how the juice looks, I might order some from the US, just to make sure I get as much out of these grapes as I can.

 

[Machine]

Tasted juice tonight, its fairly purple but rather cloudy...definitely needs a little more sweetness I think. Munched on some skins and seemed fairly devoid of tannin. Wish I knew better from looking/tasting whether pectic enzyme was necessary...will decide tonight whether I'll just get the process going or order some enzyme online, just to be certain...seems like I can't find any enzyme in Toronto...ugh.

 

[Arne]

John knows way more than I do about fresh grapes. My thoughts are if the juice is way tart you mite need to add some more sugar. If you have a hydrometer, check the specific gravity or the brix. That will let you know if the grapes have enough sugar in them to give you the proper alcohol by vol. to be able to keep the wine for a while. Otherwise, think I would get things started unless you are keeping the must pretty cold. Good luck with it, Arne.

 

[sholomy]

for added tannin dont destem the grapes throw it in there stem and all

 

[Machine]

Hydrometer is showing 1.045, and mix is still cold (around 50 degrees still...only out of the fridge for a few hours). Its in the bucket, going to add Campden and let it sit overnight and check specific gravity again tomorrow, and then start adding sugar.

 

[JohnT]

If not already done so, also test/adjust the acid. If the juice is too tart, then I would say that your must is too acidic.

An acid test kit is the best bang for your buck and is only about $8(usd).

If you need to adjust the acid, the best approach at this point is to only partially adjust at this point. You have a lot of pulp, etc in your must and getting a 100% accurate reading is not going to happen. I do not make an adjustment to must when the acid is between .55 and .70. I "fine tune" the adjustment after fermentation is complete and the wine is racked.

 

[Machine]

I tried the acid test last night, and found it difficult to judge the colour change. Going to try again with a less pulpy sample. Juice is fairly translucent, how much volume of distilled water can I add to the juice to make it easier to judge a colour change? It seemed to take a lot to get the colour to change...how acidic might this must be??? Is there a better/easier method to measure the acidity??

Also not sure I can afford to lose another 15 cc of juice, though my original calculations of volume were assuming a Canadian gallon, not a US gallon (and my equipment is all for US gallons). Hopefully I'll have some spare juice to use to top up the carboy from time to time as needed.

 

[JohnT]

I tried the acid test last night, and found it difficult to judge the colour change. Going to try again with a less pulpy sample. Juice is fairly translucent, how much volume of distilled water can I add to the juice to make it easier to judge a colour change? It seemed to take a lot to get the colour to change...how acidic might this must be??? Is there a better/easier method to measure the acidity??

Also not sure I can afford to lose another 15 cc of juice, though my original calculations of volume were assuming a Canadian gallon, not a US gallon (and my equipment is all for US gallons). Hopefully I'll have some spare juice to use to top up the carboy from time to time as needed.

You can add the same amount of distilled water as your wine sample. I would suspect that it might be rather acidic. You describe the taste as rather tart, a tale-tell sign of too much acid.

To adjust, you could either add k-bicarb, but this should only be used for minor adjustments as large amounts can throw off the wine's flavor. You could also add water until you get to the desired acid level and then add sugar to get back to the desired sg.

 

[Machine]

Thanks again for all the helpful advice John. I suspect the fact that Japanese beetles largely skeletonized the leaves on my vines was not exactly an aid in photosynthesis this year so cheer's to better luck and fewer required adjustments next year! Will grab some k-bicarb on the way home tonight and add with a light touch, assuming that tonight's re-do on the acid test demands it. Fingers crossed that I'll get things straightened out enough to pitch the yeast tonight.

My fermentation bucket has a lid on it, with a small hole of course, but I was planning to leave the lid off and merely cover with cheesecloth (i do still have a few fruit flies occupying my house, as I'm still overrun with garden tomatoes, so it needs some sort of cover). Going to research addition of yeast nutrient, so should be all set to get this experiment moving forward after work tonight.

 

[JohnT]

Thanks again for all the helpful advice John. I suspect the fact that Japanese beetles largely skeletonized the leaves on my vines was not exactly an aid in photosynthesis this year so cheer's to better luck and fewer required adjustments next year! Will grab some k-bicarb on the way home tonight and add with a light touch, assuming that tonight's re-do on the acid test demands it. Fingers crossed that I'll get things straightened out enough to pitch the yeast tonight.

My fermentation bucket has a lid on it, with a small hole of course, but I was planning to leave the lid off and merely cover with cheesecloth (i do still have a few fruit flies occupying my house, as I'm still overrun with garden tomatoes, so it needs some sort of cover). Going to research addition of yeast nutrient, so should be all set to get this experiment moving forward after work tonight.

To quote Mr Spock (yup, I am a nerd), "for everything there is a beginning".