Fermenting Juice with sorbate (how much yeast is too much?)

[Elmer]

Here is the deal, My wife bought me some apple cider to make a batch of wine.
I dumped a gallon in, threw in some ingredients and tossed in my yeast.
only later (the next day), when I noticed no activity happening did I go back and re-read the ingredients.
I knew it had a metabisulfite, which is why I whipped the heck out of the must, but I guess I did not see the ingredient which indicated WAY TOOO MUCH SORBATE, CITRUS ACID & THINGS THAT WONT FERMENT!

This is what happens when you try to make wine with your young kids running around your wine room knocking things over and asking a million questions, you dont pay attention.

instead of getting ticked off I accepted the challenge of getting this bugger going.
I started a yeast started, 2 oz of must, tbs of sugar and some water. The yeast starter, started, but not so much in the must. The next day there is circular film on top of the must, but no visible movement, no bubbles, no yeast chomping away.

before I declare defeat I was going to drop my last packet of Lavlin 118 (which I have already used twice) into the must. I also thought of adding some more nutrient.

So my question is- what is the harm in adding yet another packet of yeast?

The recipe was given to me by my LHBS guy
ingredients:

1 gallons, fresh apple cider
1/2 teaspoon, acid blend
1/2 teaspoon, yeast nutrient
1 teaspoon, pectic enzyme
1/4 cup white sugar
OG: 1.065

 

[Turock]

Well, with the sorbate in there it takes more effort than to just make a simple yeast starter. I'm not sure it's worth it since this is only 1 gallon. You need Go Ferm and some Fermaid K and a yeast that's a vigorous fermenter. It's important to build up the biomass of the must so that it has lots of nutrient resources. I can give you more guidelines in how to do it if you really think it's worth it--or just start over again.

 

[BernardSmith]

I've never had very much success in beating sorbated cider. Some success but not great. What you are doing is sending in poorly armed foot patrols up a steep heavily armed hill. It's not gonna work. You gotta get the weapons at the top of the hill firing in a different direction.. What I might do is a gambit - as in chess: you sacrifice one piece to win a better piece. You sacrifice a batch of yeast which the sorbate binds to and then (I believe) has no more molecular ability to bind to additional yeast. So, I would make a yeast starter so that you have a very large colony of active yeast and dump that in. These are the sacrificial goats. You then make a new batch of yeast and get that going (another starter) and then I would add the same volume of the sorbated juice to your second starter. Wait to see if this continues to be active. If it is then after a few hours double the volume again. Wait and see if it remains active hours later. If yes, double the volume again.. and so on until all the sorbated juice has been added to the starter ... The principle is that you have handicapped the sorbate by sacrificing a large colony of yeast, you then pick off the sorbated juice in small quantities and overwhelm it with a huge quantity of the yeast... sometimes this has worked for me and sometimes I have had to call it quits.

 

[Elmer]

Well, with the sorbate in there it takes more effort than to just make a simple yeast starter. I'm not sure it's worth it since this is only 1 gallon. You need Go Ferm and some Fermaid K and a yeast that's a vigorous fermenter. It's important to build up the biomass of the must so that it has lots of nutrient resources. I can give you more guidelines in how to do it if you really think it's worth it--or just start over again.

On my way home I may be able to get my hands on some local, organic Cider. I may just dump it in and dilute down the sorbate and turn the 1 gallon into 2 or 3, but unfortunately that was never my intent to make more than 1 gallon.

funny how problem solving can lead to more wine!

Thanks for info!

 

[Turock]

I think you should just start over with better juice--not add it to what is,already, a big problem. If this was a large batch, it might be worth trying to rescue---but 1 gallon? Not so much.

 

[Brew and Wine Supply]

I agree with Turock, don't throw good money ( cider ) after bad, just start over with the good stuff!
let the other cider sit a day or two to settle out the yeast, rack it and drink it as is.

 

[richmke]

On my way home I may be able to get my hands on some local, organic Cider. I may just dump it in and dilute down the sorbate and turn the 1 gallon into 2 or 3, but unfortunately that was never my intent to make more than 1 gallon.

Wait!!!

Ferment the Organic Cider Only. That will build up a large colony of Yeast. After that has fermented for 4-5 days, then add it to the sorbated cider.

 

[Elmer]

just called my LHBS, they have gallons of cider (no bad stuff inside) for $8 a gallon.
Since I am plum out of yeast I might have to make a trip up there tommorow!

 

[garymc]

I'm assuming cider isn't consumed dry. So you could use the new cider to make a high alcohol (16%+) batch and then use the sorbated stuff to backsweeten or blend without adding more sorbate at that time. If the blended cider ferments more, ok. If it doesn't, then you (do the calculations) end up with 8%, more or less, wine. I don't make cider, so there may be cider-specific reasons why this wouldn't work. Acidity, for instance. So maybe Doug's idea is best.