Ferment diary ... Shiraz, Grenache, Zin/Primitivo

[REDRUM]

Yes I agree! There is heaps of info out there but it's good to be able to ask Q's as you go because problems or issues that crop up are usually very specific ones.

I have taken gravity measurements again this morning, 5 days into the ferment:

Grenache - SG 1.002/Brix 0.52. I plan to press this tomorrow. As I suspected it is thin and quite tart, and given the starting readings it should end up at only 11% abv or so. Is it worth trying to beef it up a bit by adding some sugar? (if so, how much to gain an extra 1% alcohol, and should I be trying to modify it in any other way? I will hit it with a little bit of oak during secondary / maturation).

Primitivo - SG 1.068/Brix 16.64. This ferment seems to be going quite slowly. As long as it doesn't stop, that should be OK right? Or should I add a bit of nutrient? I am happy to give this guy all the time he needs. Alternatively after I press the grenache I am considering blending a bit of it in here, which will drop the sugars slightly (maybe speed up the ferment) and increase the acid slightly.

Shiraz - SG 1.006/Brix 1.56. There is still a bit of so2 eggy gas smell but I read an article on the ECKraus site saying that when this smell comes off an overactive ferment or certain wild yeasts taking over (either of which I think was the case here), the best thing to do is to just wait and it should all dissipate when pressing, racking, etc. So I'm not fussed. The smell is diminishing and the wine tastes good. Nearly done - I think I'll probably press early next week.

'PSG' field blend - SG 1.036/Brix 9.08. Tasting great, acids & tannins seem all in balance. Just wish I had mixed up more than 15L of this at the start of ferment, cos it might be the pick of the bunch!

---

Plan from here: after pressing I will inoculate all the wines with MLB and then mature in demijohns for at least 6 months. Planning on using some oak spirals during maturation.

 

[ceeaton]

Grenache - SG 1.002/Brix 0.52. I plan to press this tomorrow. As I suspected it is thin and quite tart, and given the starting readings it should end up at only 11% abv or so. Is it worth trying to beef it up a bit by adding some sugar? (if so, how much to gain an extra 1% alcohol, and should I be trying to modify it in any other way? I will hit it with a little bit of oak during secondary / maturation).

Don't add any more sugar, more alcohol will only make the body thinner tasting.

Primitivo - SG 1.068/Brix 16.64. This ferment seems to be going quite slowly. As long as it doesn't stop, that should be OK right? Or should I add a bit of nutrient? I am happy to give this guy all the time he needs. Alternatively after I press the grenache I am considering blending a bit of it in here, which will drop the sugars slightly (maybe speed up the ferment) and increase the acid slightly.

Did you use the commercial yeast in all of these, or are you letting the wild yeast ferment this one? If so I'd add a commercial yeast to this one. I wouldn't add any more nutrient unless you are getting some off aromas. Some here would say you could punch it down a few extra times a day.

I know batches I've done with AMH yeast have been twice as slow as other yeast strains, the plus is that you are extracting more color and tannins, if they exist to begin with, from the skins.

 

[REDRUM]

Don't add any more sugar, more alcohol will only make the body thinner tasting.

Okie dokie! I pressed the grenache today - it has fermented dry (SG 0.998) and it actually tastes like there might be a bit more going on there flavour-wise than I had initially thought. I will put it through malo after racking off gross lees, and see how it goes !!

Did you use the commercial yeast in all of these, or are you letting the wild yeast ferment this one? If so I'd add a commercial yeast to this one. I wouldn't add any more nutrient unless you are getting some off aromas. Some here would say you could punch it down a few extra times a day.

I know batches I've done with AMH yeast have been twice as slow as other yeast strains, the plus is that you are extracting more color and tannins, if they exist to begin with, from the skins.

I used commercial yeast on all (R56). There is some nice airlock activity going on, it's fermenting steadily but just a wee bit slower than the others... but when it comes to wine, slow & steady wins the race right?

 

[ceeaton]

Okie dokie! I pressed the grenache today - it has fermented dry (SG 0.998) and it actually tastes like there might be a bit more going on there flavour-wise than I had initially thought. I will put it through malo after racking off gross lees, and see how it goes !!



I used commercial yeast on all (R56). There is some nice airlock activity going on, it's fermenting steadily but just a wee bit slower than the others... but when it comes to wine, slow & steady wins the race right?

Slow and steady has always worked in my book. I had a Cab Franc that was done in about four days that is thin and lightly colored, but still flavorful. If I had used a slower yeast and lowered my temperature, I'm sure it would have been a much heartier wine. I'm planning to blend a part of it with other wines (a Syrah and potentially a Zin) to make a bunch of different wines. But a nice light red wine still has it's place in any cellar. There are certain foods that just pair better with a less than bold red wine. Plus my wife is more likely to enjoy a lighter red wine, gotta keep her happy!

 

[Obelix]

How is it going?
Drinking it yet? ;-)

 

[REDRUM]

Just pressed the shiraz today using my little torchietto press. It has fermented dry.. and it is quite dry & a bit acidic!! I hope time will mellow it... good candidate for a bit of oak too.
Also pressed father-in-law's grenache/shiraz with his basket press.
Primitivo still bubbling , I'll give that a few more days.
Next step is working out when to rack off gross lees, add sulfites & start MLF. What's your timeframe for that Obelix?

 

[Obelix]

My Shiraz is going slightly acidic too. Hope that would be addressed by the MLF and clearing.

I raked 5 days after pressing.

50L raked into a separate container - won't MLF this one.
Added sulphite into this immediately after raking to prevent the MLF.

The other 150L added MLF immediately after raking. No sulphite until that completes.
Both still bubbling.

I may have made a few mistakes here. Will learn from it.

How is your Grenache going?

 

[Johnd]

Next step is working out when to rack off gross lees, add sulfites & start MLF. What's your timeframe for that Obelix?

@Obelix is on the money, no sulfite til after MLF, though it would be derelict to not note that some mlb can tolerate low levels of sulfite. Best to skip it for now.

Consider waiting no longer than 72 hours after pressing to rack off of the gross lees, muck longer and the risk of funky smells, off tastes, and H2S starts creeping up.

 

[mainshipfred]

@Obelix is on the money, no sulfite til after MLF, though it would be derelict to not note that some mlb can tolerate low levels of sulfite. Best to skip it for now.

Consider waiting no longer than 72 hours after pressing to rack off of the gross lees, muck longer and the risk of funky smells, off tastes, and H2S starts creeping up.

Speaking of H2S, yesterday I racked a Cranberry Malbec and came up short but had a bottle left from the first racking which was kept in the same milk crate as the carboy so the same conditions. Both had similar airspace and an airlock. I started pouring the bottle in the carboy and noticed an H2S smell. Only poured half the bottle when I noticed. It wasn't the carboy because the smell wasn't in the carboy I racked from. To get to the point I had a piece of 1/O copper that I stirred the new carboy with, let it sit for an hour or so, stirred again and the smell was gone. It's the first time I ever used copper and didn't realize it would work so fast..

 

[Johnd]

Speaking of H2S, yesterday I racked a Cranberry Malbec and came up short but had a bottle left from the first racking which was kept in the same milk crate as the carboy so the same conditions. Both had similar airspace and an airlock. I started pouring the bottle in the carboy and noticed an H2S smell. Only poured half the bottle when I noticed. It wasn't the carboy because the smell wasn't in the carboy I racked from. To get to the point I had a piece of 1/O copper that I stirred the new carboy with, let it sit for an hour or so, stirred again and the smell was gone. It's the first time I ever used copper and didn't realize it would work so fast..

It’s a pretty quick result, even with minimal exposure.

 

[Obelix]

This is interesting and useful info. Thanks for that.
Has the chemical reaction reacted on the surface of the copper or has the copper dissolved in wine?

 

[mainshipfred]

This is interesting and useful info. Thanks for that.
Has the chemical reaction reacted on the surface of the copper or has the copper dissolved in wine?

As far as I can tell neither. Copper didn't have the slightest color change and if it did disolve I can't tell. I wish I knew the chemistry behind it but from what I think I remember it creates a salt that drops out.

 

[stickman]

A small amount of the copper dissolves and reacts with the H2S to form copper sulfide, a black solid that settles out over time. The main issue is ensuring that the minimum amount of copper is added to react and eliminate the H2S, so that the least amount of free copper is left in the wine. That's the reason for Reduless or copper sulfate bench trials being recommended by most labs.

 

[REDRUM]

11 days and the primitivo is still bubbling steadily through the airlock! colour & tannin extraction seems pretty intense so I am thinking I might press tonight and leave off skins for the rest of the fermentation.
I racked grenache off gross lees a couple of days ago, will do same to shiraz tonight. .. .then when the primitivo is ready I'll add MLB to all.

 

[Obelix]

Hi Redrum.

That Primitivo sounds really promissing

Not finding Grenache exciting.
The 24L of Grenache that I was fermenting in a beer fermenter finished reasonably quickly.
Being pressed the day after crushing, taste of Grenache is not nice at all. A lot of particles makes it cloudy.
I'll see if I could turn it into a Rose.

 

[REDRUM]

Not finding Grenache exciting.
The 24L of Grenache that I was fermenting in a beer fermenter finished reasonably quickly.
Being pressed the day after crushing, taste of Grenache is not nice at all. A lot of particles makes it cloudy.
I'll see if I could turn it into a Rose.

Give it time ... probably won't be mindblowing but it might turn into a nice light summer red!!!

My grenache is starting to smell a little bit more complex than what I originally thought.
I have now racked grenache, shiraz, and a 20L demijohn of my F-I-L's grenache/shiraz 'wild ferment' blend off gross lees. Shiraz and the blend seem like they're turning out really nicely (and all the rotten-egg smell has gone completely from the shiraz).

Just pressed the primitivo and the PSG blend in my little torchietto press. The PSG has fermented dry but the primitivo is still going - down to 4.62 Brix now!

 

[REDRUM]

2 and a half weeks in and my Primitivo still has a tiny bit more fermentation to go ... down to 1.04 Brix. Starting to taste drier. Getting impatient as I want to start MLF on all the batches at once.

 

[stickman]

You may have a sluggish fermentation, so I wouldn't add the ML culture until the AF is complete. Adding the ML now could cause the AF to stall, the ML might proceed, but sugar will be left for consumption by the bacteria once the malic is consumed, therefore it would be critical to sulfite the moment ML is complete.

 

[REDRUM]

Sure thing ... I will let it ferment dry before adding the MLB.

 

[Obelix]

Hm...I pressed Shiraz at 5 Brix and it kept fermenting afterwards.
Raked of gross lees after 5 days. Still going.
I added the MLF regardless.
Will ferment it dry next year.