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jgmann67

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Finally got around to starting this one. My initial sg after letting sit on the skin pack overnight was 1.094, just where I want it.

@jgmann67 did you do your shortened EM? I am also considering not messing with a good thing, and doing it more or less by the book.

Does this one benefit from tannin ft rogue in primary? All I've heard is that it's good as is. I probably still have time to add it, as AF hasn't really taken off yet.
i decided against the EM. Added a little tannin. And the wine is aging nicely. I may add some finishing tanninat thenext racking. But otherwise, I’m mostly by the book.
 

EKCellarWines

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I’m a newbie home winemaker. One Pinot Noir under my belt, which for a 45 day old wine is enjoyable. Let’s start there so you understand this is likely a question a more seasoned expert wouldn’t ask.

I am making the SLM and The primary fermentation process has cruised to .996 SG in 6 days. I did not put my Skins in the muslin based on the advise of someone saying loose skins would provide more character to the wine in less time. I am looking to get a good quality young drinker as quick as possible. There is little activity at this point in the bucket (most of the skins have sunk) and when I punch down very few bubbles on top.

Question is should I let it sit in the primary fermentation bucket for another 7-8 days or move it off the skins and to the carboy?
I want it to be good, not looking to rush, but again I’m excited about trying it young as soon as possible.
 

EKCellarWines

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I’m a newbie home winemaker. One Pinot Noir under my belt, which for a 45 day old wine is enjoyable. Let’s start there so you understand this is likely a question a more seasoned expert wouldn’t ask.

I am making the SLM and The primary fermentation process has cruised to .996 SG in 6 days. I did not put my Skins in the muslin based on the advise of someone saying loose skins would provide more character to the wine in less time. I am looking to get a good quality young drinker as quick as possible. There is little activity at this point in the bucket (most of the skins have sunk) and when I punch down very few bubbles on top.

Question is should I let it sit in the primary fermentation bucket for another 7-8 days or move it off the skins and to the carboy?
I want it to be good, not looking to rush, but again I’m excited about trying it young as soon as possible.
I went ahead and started the racking. So far so good. Lot more bubbles coming though the racking cane than my last batch.

Hopefully progresses ok in the carboy. 80BE41BD-9229-43F2-97BA-F307A26E6928.jpegimage.jpg
 

EKCellarWines

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How does an EM work? Do I need to add anything to let it sit past optimum SG? I was nervous about letting sit on the lees.
 

Brian55

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How does an EM work? Do I need to add anything to let it sit past optimum SG? I was nervous about letting sit on the lees.
Here's a few threads on the subject:



 

WillShill

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Hi I’m about to start a Mosti Mondiale kit with an additional pack of their all grape skins pack which is 4KG/8.8 lb weight, my bucket is 30litres and with 23 litres plus 4KG will rise the level close to the surface, do I need 23 litres or could I reduce the juice amount as the grape pack will increase my liquid quantity, read somewhere about holding back juice to add as ferment decreases, or do I just use my hated Fastfermenter which has headspace??
 

cmason1957

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Hi I’m about to start a Mosti Mondiale kit with an additional pack of their all grape skins pack which is 4KG/8.8 lb weight, my bucket is 30litres and with 23 litres plus 4KG will rise the level close to the surface, do I need 23 litres or could I reduce the juice amount as the grape pack will increase my liquid quantity, read somewhere about holding back juice to add as ferment decreases, or do I just use my hated Fastfermenter which has headspace??
You can always go to your local and favorite hardware store and buy a Brute or Rubbermaid Trash Can, look for NSF stamped on it somewhere or a 2 in a triangle. The yellow, white, and grey ones are all food safe and have been used by many for fermenters. A 10 gallon one will work just fine or you could go bigger and get a 20 gallon one.
 

WillShill

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Not an option I live in Northern Ireland and we don’t have hardware stores that stock niche items and there is one home brew store in the country 1 1/2 hours drive away so a 4 hour round trip isn’t viable , tried online for larger bucket they aren’t available or ridiculously expensive for shipping so I’ll risk it tomorrow and stay home on the weekend and baby sit my wine.
 

Swedeman

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my bucket is 30litres and with 23 litres plus 4KG will rise the level close to the surface,
What yeast/temperature will you use? I use a 27 liter Fermonster for my skin kits and haven't had any overflows yet (not even close). Had it been a Classic German wheat beer yeast in a wheat beer then... :)
 

WillShill

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EC 1118 yeast and 77 degrees I’m aim for, now the grape pack is 4KG into 23 litres, if only I’d paid attention to displacement in science class , but my basic take is 4KG has equivalence of 4 litres in displacement or an I wrong , that’ll be 27 litres in a 28 litre bucket , Kits with grape skin usually are 2kg so not as big a problem, that’s my concern,
 

sour_grapes

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EC 1118 yeast and 77 degrees I’m aim for, now the grape pack is 4KG into 23 litres, if only I’d paid attention to displacement in science class , but my basic take is 4KG has equivalence of 4 litres in displacement or an I wrong , that’ll be 27 litres in a 28 litre bucket , Kits with grape skin usually are 2kg so not as big a problem, that’s my concern,
I agree with your general concern, but you seem to think that a grape pack will have the same density as water. I don't know the density, but it is highly concentrated with lots of sugar, and will be denser than water (so less volume). I think the density (SG) would be about 1.3 to 1.4 (http://www.fruitsmart.com/ewExternalFiles/usdasucroseconvtable.pdf), so the volume should be, say, 3 L, not 4.
 

Swedeman

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Sour_grapes is spot on, I just checked the 2,8 kg skin pack I have at home and it took up roughly two liter. So 3 liter is a good guesstimate. That will give you 26 liter in your bucket (that is 28 or 30 liter?). When I do my skin kits I have 2 liter of head space. This is how it looks: Other - Extended Maceration Eclipse Lodi 11 Cab (not my post though).

If you are concerned, maybe holding back 1 liter of water until you're you are at the fermentation peak and then decide when you can add it.

EC 1118 is supposed to be a low foam producer.

BTW Why do you dislike the Fastfermenter?
 

WillShill

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Sour_grapes is spot on, I just checked the 2,8 kg skin pack I have at home and it took up roughly two liter. So 3 liter is a good guesstimate. That will give you 26 liter in your bucket (that is 28 or 30 liter?). When I do my skin kits I have 2 liter of head space. This is how it looks: Other - Extended Maceration Eclipse Lodi 11 Cab (not my post though).

If you are concerned, maybe holding back 1 liter of water until you're you are at the fermentation peak and then decide when you can add it.

EC 1118 is supposed to be a low foam producer.

BTW Why do you dislike the Fastfermenter?
Thanks for checking with your grape pack, I’m more relaxed now, and to the Fastfermenter , well I love the idea of how it’s supposed to work but after 4 kits I’m mostly disappointed with the refusal of sediment to drop into the collection ball , I’ve persevered poked it prodded it , stirred it and left it far longer than necessary and it still doesn’t drop , and maybe the ball is inadequate to take the amount, I’ve emptied a ball and gave room for more to drop and remains in the base of the v, I think later models have a wider base which would allow clearing to happen so maybe I bought an early dud , so if you have any tips I’d be happy to give it another go I did just buy two kits.
 

WillShill

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Sorry, can't give you any tips as i don't own one. But I have thought of buying one, hence my question.

Maybe @crushday could share some tips as I know he has a "few" Fastfermenters in his setup: Started seven kits today
Hi George it’s been suggested by Swedeman that I get advice on Fastferment from you , as I’ve seen you’re are “the man “ I’ve used mine and struggle to get sediment to drop , I’ve read somewhere about larger base openings , mine is 1 inch wide and maybe restrictive, I see you have the larger Fastferment units which naturally have larger openings is that the key? so please if you can offer tips and tricks to rescue my Fastferment from my dusty shed , thanks William
 

someirishman

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Ive been using fastferment for few years now for wines only, I only use them for fast turn around kits and as you say the sediment wont fully drop into the ball or ball gets filled and pushes up, what I do now is after I have degassed and add clearing agents the next day or two when sediment really drops I open lid on top and turn off the valve at bottom, I take off the ball and empty maybe half or more of the sediment, then attach ball again and open valve the vacuum pushes the sediment down into the ball, you dont want to leave this job too long after adding the clearing agents, if you wait until wine is clear to do this the vacuum will cause sediment to make the rest of the wine cloudy and you will have to wait again for wine to clear. also for a couple of days after doing this I put both my hands around lower end of fermenter and slap gently making and sediment clinging to the sides fall down lower and into the ball. ive tried many different ways and this is the system I use all the time now and works great, this fermenter is great for bottling which is why you want all the sediment gone.
I dont use these anymore for better kits, I have a SLM on the go atm but done it in big bucket with skins and now its in a carboy where it will stay for as long as I can wait.
 

WillShill

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Ive been using fastferment for few years now for wines only, I only use them for fast turn around kits and as you say the sediment wont fully drop into the ball or ball gets filled and pushes up, what I do now is after I have degassed and add clearing agents the next day or two when sediment really drops I open lid on top and turn off the valve at bottom, I take off the ball and empty maybe half or more of the sediment, then attach ball again and open valve the vacuum pushes the sediment down into the ball, you dont want to leave this job too long after adding the clearing agents, if you wait until wine is clear to do this the vacuum will cause sediment to make the rest of the wine cloudy and you will have to wait again for wine to clear. also for a couple of days after doing this I put both my hands around lower end of fermenter and slap gently making and sediment clinging to the sides fall down lower and into the ball. ive tried many different ways and this is the system I use all the time now and works great, this fermenter is great for bottling which is why you want all the sediment gone.
I dont use these anymore for better kits, I have a SLM on the go atm but done it in big bucket with skins and now its in a carboy where it will stay for as long as I can wait.
Great that was quick from someirishman to another Irish man, I’ve thought of that method of removing ball but concerned about sanitation and letting oxygen in at that moment seems to be the warnings online , but probably a low risk solution to a design flaw , I’ve 2 kits with skins ready to start and I think the bucket and carboy old school method remains best option
 

someirishman

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I find it dont cause any issues with wine as far as ozygen or infections, generally the potassium metabisulfite prevents infection very well and oxygen aint really a problem after degassing and clearing, I turn around kits in 3 weeks in these fermenters but I would not bulk age in them, my SLM is in carboy and topped with co2 for bulk ageing. they have their uses but as you say they are not without their design flaws for sure.
 

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