Early racking?

[sct1984]

No, you do not need to add the Sorbate or KMS again. Over time, the KMS becomes bound and your free KMS dissipates, that's why we add more at 3 month racking intervals. Sorbate lasts a good long while, yours was added very recently, so you're certainly ok there. Be careful with the sugar, as the wine ages a bit, the sweetness and fruitiness tends to increase.

thanks John, tonight's plan will be to re-make the sample with the 15mL/750mL and test the S.G. - since I didn't think to check it before tasting. Funny how the mind shuts down sometimes "I'll just check after we've tasted"...

I have read also to sweeten a little bit less than what was desired... so if we like it at 1.012, to sweeten it to 1.008 - 1.010. Does that sound about right?

 

[Johnd]

thanks John, tonight's plan will be to re-make the sample with the 15mL/750mL and test the S.G. - since I didn't think to check it before tasting. Funny how the mind shuts down sometimes "I'll just check after we've tasted"...

I have read also to sweeten a little bit less than what was desired... so if we like it at 1.012, to sweeten it to 1.008 - 1.010. Does that sound about right?

As far as the theory of sweetening a bit less, I can attest to that from experience. When it comes to how much less to sweeten, I can't really help you out there. Most of the wines I've sweetened (which are very few), none have been as high as 1.008, but this is about your taste, not mine!!!!

 

[Scooter68]

Since sorbate, over time will change the taste adversely I would leave backsweetening and sorbate until a few days before bottling. The taste of the wine will change over time as well and the amount of sweetening needed may be less later on.

Did you say what type of wine this is? Different fruits will age differently - lose acidity - those with a lot of citric acid tend to lose that acidity more than others. Why commit to a sweetening until it's ready to bottle? You may find that you like it with less sweetening later on.

Back sweeten, add the last K-meta / Campden tabs, and sorbate about a week or a little less before bottling. In those 5-6 days time will, like it does before you started fermentation, let the gas from the K-Meta/Campden tab(s) dissipate. And you may have a little precipitation when you take those last steps. If need be you can filter it just before you bottle it.

I don't understand the rush to add sorbate when it's known to impart a distinctive taste over time. If you are going to age it 3-6 months before bottling wait to 'stablize' Monitor it every month/when you rack.


Here's why I am not joining the bandwagon add sorbate before aging is completed (This is extracted from http://winemakersacademy.com/potassium-sorbate-wine-making/ /

LIMITATIONS OF POTASSIUM SORBATE
While this additive does stabilize wines it does have three distinct limitations. First, it is ineffective against bacteria.
If stray bacteria or lactic acid bacteria were to get in your wine while using only potassium sorbate it would not prevent spoilage or malolactic fermentation (as caused by lactic acid bacteria). The combination of sulfites and sorbate help reduce your risks of this as mentioned before.
The second limitation of potassium sorbate is the length of time it is effective. Once added to wine it stays in the desireable form of sorbic acid only for a short time. Over time it breaks down into ethyl sorbate which can add notes of pineapple or celery to your wine.
The change into ethyl sorbate is not preventable. By using potassium sorbate winemakers are putting a definite shelf life on their wines before they pick up these off flavors.
The third limitation is that it reacts poorly with lactic acid bacteria. According to my research it can produce strong geranium odors which most wine drinkers consider a flaw.
Because of these limitations many wineries do not use potassium sorbate. They opt to stabilize with sulfites only an rely on their ability to properly sanitize everything to prevent spoilage. Interestingly, wines with potassium sorbate may not be classified as organic.

 

[Stressbaby]

1. I agree with Scooter, I only add sorbate at the end.
2. In your trials, sounds like you sweetened with enough simple syrup to actually dilute the wine. I don't use simple syrup for exactly this reason. Dump the sugar in, it will dissolve. (Remember to account for an increase in volume!) Or alternatively dissolve the sugar in a little bit of the wine then add it back.
3. If you backsweeten with an fpack, you can and will cloud the wine again. If using an fpack I always clarify afterwards.
4. I always undershoot on backsweetening by 20% or so because for whatever reason the wines taste that much sweeter over time.

 

[sct1984]

I'm not totally against diluting the wine itself - alcohol is close to 14% to start with and this is a strawberry wine, so I am comfortable with it ending up between 11-12%.

A question though just for clarification.

I had thought that adding sorbate was to prevent fermentation of newly added sugars. So if the wine needs to clear after sweetening/fpack, would leaving the sorbate to the end run the risk of re-fermentation if not using a clearing agent and the wine will sit again to clear?

Any advice is always welcome, after all this is my first wine ever.

 

[Scooter68]

sct1984 - Directions typically read - Backsweeten, and K-Meta/Campden tabs, and Sorbate - all at one time. Yes, fermentation potentially could restart if you just backsweeten and don't add the other. That's why I wait until the wine has aged - so I can more accurately tell how much backsweetening to do AND in case the pH has dropped and I need to adjust that. The only additional thing I do is to try and wait 2-5 days at least before bottling as some precipitation can occur after those 3 things are added.

 

[sct1984]

So just making sure - since what "should be done" or what is "normal" and what I have already done are very well be two different things lol The take-away from this thread for me will be what I will adjust next time around, depending on my results this time, or simply just to experiment with different methods that have been suggested.

That being said, about a month ago, I racked off the lees, degassed, added k-meta and sorbate and I know I need to backsweeten and there seem to be conflicting opinions here. It is fairly clear now, so I figure I have the below options:

Option 1: Backsweeten and wait for it to clear (several more months) - no need to add sorbate again.
Option 2: Backsweeten and clarify using clarifying agents (although novice, I am unsure how it would clear otherwise in such a short time) and bottle within a week.

Are there benefits/drawbacks to both? The more I read, it seems that it comes down mostly to what I am more comfortable with...

 

[Scooter68]

Backsweetening, unless you use an f-pack or juice, should not affect the clarity. The pro's advice is that sometimes the combination of the 3 things could cause precipitation, not a cloud/haze the wine.
You could backsweeten now since the sorbate and k-meta combination should prevent any further fermentation. The only reason to wait is possibility that the character of the wine could change and require less sweetening to get where YOU want it to be. A lot depends on how much longer you are going to wait before bottling.

If you are happy with clarity now don't bother with clarifying agents. Don't forget that a very light haze can be cleared by filtering too. That will not affect taste or color like some clarifying agents. I try to avoid clarifying because there are some many products with so many different reports on what they do.
I tried Chitosan by itself instead of the two part option on a apple wine - it helped but did not completely clear it. Filtering later helped but again I never got the crystal clarity I had hoped for.
Bentonite - Some say always before fermentation, some say after is fine. I had so so results with after but don't like the idea of before because I don't want it dropping things (potentially robbing things) from my wine wile fermentation is on going. Bentonite is reportedly not a color or flavor stealer like some clarifiers.
I did find that a good filtering (I just use the Harris gravity filter) does wonders for a wine that is close but not quite there. BUT that depends on the fruit too. Apple wine is one that is notorious for clearing issues. But this is way off the topic now.

You appear to have time to think about it, read, read, reflect and then just make a decision and go with it. Very unlikely you will do anything to make it undrinkable. i SHOULD b e journaling (sp?) all my experiences with each fruit wine type because they each are unique.