Cluster Thinning (Frontenac)

[KevinL]

That's probably a fair assessment. I have riparia all over my yard in areas I haven't controlled it. It grows so well here I'm considering trying to cultivate a vine and see if I can get them to do more than just put out leaves. The grapes are tiny, and not particularly sweet, but they've got an interesting spice to them that might come in handy. I've got several trees with a very healthy looking riparia vines that grows all the way up into the canopy. Makes me wonder what they'd do pruned and on a trellis. Although I'm hesitant to waste precious trellis space on it. Maybe just one vine...

Harvest parameter for Frontenac for me is TA, Currently sitting at around 15 brix. I don't think I'll bother checking TA until September.

 

[Stressbaby]

Another data point - central Missouri, today my Frontenac is 25 brix, 3.05, TA 1.32%. So acid is dropping. Getting a few raisins and since I'm going to make rosé, I may harvest next weekend.

 

[Karl]

My Frontenac is now completed veraison, and i am still deciding how many clusters per vine i should allow. Have yet to check brix, and likely i am still a month away from picking.

 

[KevinL]

My Frontenac is currently being involuntarily cluster thinned by chipmunks. I have killed 29 so far this season, yet I still am losing grapes from left to right. I just made some Capsaicin spray and put it on the grapes, and I'm hoping that will work.

Anyone else have chipmunk issues?

 

[Masbustelo]

Have you tried using rat and mouse bait, but putting it in protected stations so larger animals can't get it?

 

[havlikn]

Our Frontenac is at 13 brix. I have been pulling clusters that seem behind. The crop will need to hang into October. Praying for continued warm weather

 

[Karl]

My Frontenac is currently being involuntarily cluster thinned by chipmunks. I have killed 29 so far this season, yet I still am losing grapes from left to right. I just made some Capsaicin spray and put it on the grapes, and I'm hoping that will work.

Anyone else have chipmunk issues?

It's not chipmunks, trust me. It's raccoons. They can climb most anything and they can walk atop the vines using wire & bird netting like an Army Ranger.

In my yard i cover the netted vines with that hard green vinyl wire you can purchase at any hardware store (it's easy to cut), and i also place wire at the base of any end posts to deter climbing, and i even place perimeter wire (with the barbs sticking up of course) to deter any commando raccoons. Since my yard is in the city there are more than a few raccoons, and so far the professional trapper i have hired has taken out 5 raccoons in the last month and there is still more. I have billions of chipmunks and they leave the vines alone, so no need to kill them. Raccoons love grapes and they can eat entire clusters in seconds.

 

[havlikn]

Agreed. Trapped 55 last year. About 15 so far this year

 

[KevinL]

It's not chipmunks, trust me. It's raccoons. They can climb most anything and they can walk atop the vines using wire & bird netting like an Army Ranger.

In my yard i cover the netted vines with that hard green vinyl wire you can purchase at any hardware store (it's easy to cut), and i also place wire at the base of any end posts to deter climbing, and i even place perimeter wire (with the barbs sticking up of course) to deter any commando raccoons. Since my yard is in the city there are more than a few raccoons, and so far the professional trapper i have hired has taken out 5 raccoons in the last month and there is still more. I have billions of chipmunks and they leave the vines alone, so no need to kill them. Raccoons love grapes and they can eat entire clusters in seconds.

For some reason I hadn't considered raccoons.

I do know that chipmunks are a problem for me, though. Last year I didn't think that Chipmunks were an issue for me until I started having losses. I figured it was birds getting through the netting somehow. Then one morning I went out early and saw a pair of chipmunks in the vines with a mouthful of grapes. I chased them into a burrow which was in the middle of the row. Sure enough, my losses started directly above that hole, and then continued to span out. I trapped the chipmunks and my losses stopped.

This year I was proactive and trapped out all of the chipmunks in the vineyard (and the ones destroying my foundation), but I'm still having losses. I haven't actually laid eyes on a raccoon in the neighborhood since about a year and a half ago, I have no doubt that they are present though. I'd lay a high sum that you are right: a raccoon is my bandit.

The Capsaicin should work for repelling the raccoons as well, although as I type this the rain is busy coming down washing away my spray. I'll need to call a trapper. Let me know if you've got a recommendation Karl.

 

[havlikn]

Coon cuffs with mini marshmallows. No trapper needed. We were catching three a day at some points

 

[KevinL]

Unfortunately my state is stupid. Even if the darn thing was living in my attic and peeing on my kids, I'd have to beg the state for permission before trapping it.

https://extension.illinois.edu/wildlife/solutions_remove.cfm

I worry that if I ask for the stupid permit to trap the Raccoons on my own property that they will deny me, and then I'll have asked for permission and be on the radar. From the map it looks like the person who would be giving me permission would be from Cook county, and I'll be damned if I let a government anything from Cook County set foot on the property...

I'll do a little research. If the fine is cheaper than the trapper, I might have to go that route.

 

[havlikn]

Another reason not to live in Illinois. Not telling you what to do, but I know if it was my own property what I would do.

 

[KevinL]

I may have already placed an order for coon cuffs. Just to look at them.

 

[Masbustelo]

In Illinois you need to get a permit from the the state game warden. The same ones that patrol fishing areas etc. They will give you a permit to live trap them. Then you have to take them to an un-incorporated area, get permission from a land owner and then dispatch them with a 22 gauge rifle. Obviously you have to purchase a rifle and have a permit to use and transport it. Or, you can hire a duly licensed game trapper to do it all for you. Who knows what that would cost for a season?

 

[Karl]

Another reason not to live in Illinois. Not telling you what to do, but I know if it was my own property what I would do.

If i lived in the country i would take care of this myself, but it gets messy and i live in the city, so running around shooting animals isn't exactly going to go un-noticed, if you know what i mean. Best way to stop raccoons is to use wire and create a perimeter, or have proper trellises.

 

[treesaver]

There is a reason I live in Ks! Also trapping coons is what I do....all winter long. I can't imagine not being able to kill a critter that is doing damage on your property! Price you pay for living in a liberal environment, I guess. Just what everyone needs.....more goverment!

 

[Karl]

There is a reason I live in Ks! Also trapping coons is what I do....all winter long. I can't imagine not being able to kill a critter that is doing damage on your property! Price you pay for living in a liberal environment, I guess. Just what everyone needs.....more goverment!

Don't think they want people using firearms in the city, and they also don't want idiots trapping raccoons and trying to release them at the local forest preserve or neighborhood park (which causes many more issues).

 

[KevinL]

So I wrote that post a few days ago, did some reading for a bit, and then wandered outside at around midnight. Right in the middle of the vineyard was a raccoon. Sure enough.

So after quite a bit of reading on the subject of vermin:

In Illinois it is illegal to relocate one after it is trapped. All trapped raccoons must be destroyed or released where they are trapped. Since the price of pelts has dropped, raccoon hunting has decreased over the years and now they're overpopulated to the tune of several million (or something like that.) Most trappers have a CO2 chamber for the ones they pull out of cities. Where it is not illegal to discharge a firearm, trappers will just use a .22. The law with regards to taking them simply hasn't caught up with the current conditions (and likely never will because the licensed trappers have no incentive to give up the racket).

Since discovering their presence, two raccoons have had terrible accidents in my vineyard, not sure how they got to be so clumsy.

Anyway, pulled my first sample from the Frontenac today. I think I went a little over represented from the more shaded portion of my vineyard (the north side). Since I'm not near to harvesting I'll just remember to get an accurate representation for the next test.

17 Brix
pH: 3.01
TA: 15

TA is ahead of where it was last year, and since that is the harvest parameter, that's good news.

My most easily accessible fourth clusters were cluster thinned by my clumsy neighborhood bandits. When I do my more serious readings later in the season I'll try to remember to get a separate reading on 4th clusters.

 

[Karl]

Yes, there have been a few raccoon accidents in my yard as well, but there are a few raccoon commandos currently causing me some problems, so we are trying something different tonight.

My Frontenac is pruned to only 2 clusters per shoot, but that is still a lot of grapes. Haven't checked brix, mostly because i know they ripen in early September, so i have been focusing on my white varieties. Already have around 2 gallons of white wine getting ready to ferment, and i still have 6 large vines to pick (Lacrosse, Prairie Star, Swenson White, Aromella, Frontenac Gris x 2)

 

[treesaver]

Don't think they want people using firearms in the city, and they also don't want idiots trapping raccoons and trying to release them at the local forest preserve or neighborhood park (which causes many more issues).

First, I am not one of your "idiots". I have been a trapper all my life, and know how to deal with these problems. All racoons are DOA on site, and yes I do it humanly. Probably much more so than you would. Have a good day!