am I choosing the proper training systems?

[TimTheWiner]

Thanks again for the info, and that 2nd pic of the modified GDC def makes sense to me now. Maybe it would be so hard to arrange. So would you prefer the modified GDC over TWC for the Marquette/Noiret then overall/worth the extra work? I do regret not research this earlier than now, and making my rows a bit longer so I was not squishing them together at 5' spacing. I just saw 4-6 ft on a lot of the vines I was interested in on Double A's site and figured 5 was fine. Too late now ;/

 

[GreginND]

Shockwave,

I think part of the decision of Rich's mod GDC vs TWC will depend on your soil. The TWC is a single fruiting wire with two cordons while the mod GDC is two fruiting wires with four cordons. The ability to grow two fruiting wires with high quality will depend on the vigor of your grapes and the soil. Marquette should be vigorous enough for that but if your soil is low on nutrients it may be better to go with the TWC. If you have good soil and vigorous varietals you should be good with the mod-GDC.

Rich,

I would like to do 10 foot rows but I don't think I can squeeze them all in my space if I do that. I haven't bought my tractor yet so that is something else I can control after the fact. Thanks again for the info. Much appreciated.

 

[TimTheWiner]

I would like to do another soil test this spring just to see where I'm at again. The first test last Sept was fairly low across the board (potassium/nitrogen/etc). and my pH was a measly 4.7 but I lined quite a bit (pulverized), not sure if its taken full effect yet. Probably a few more months.

 

[grapeman]

Greg thanks for the explanation- you are spot on - the soil definitely influences the vigor of each variety. I think ShockwaveCT will do alright for the marquette with TWC and I would choose that for it over VSP- even though a lot of the booklets say VSP. You can indeed grow some nice looking Marquette on VSP, but it is a LOT of work, where the TWC just needs a quick comb-down of the growing shoots and a bit of leaf pulling.

I am afraid that the vigor of his site may be artificailly high now as he dug the rows out and mixed ammendments back in, just like Jeff Cox recommends in his book. The problem is that that practice usually makes a site too vigorous and you fight that vigor for 10 years afterwards. Unless he had hardpan- which it wasn't there was no real benefit to the procedure other than to remove the big rock from the sit.

 

[TimTheWiner]

What's funny is that I chose to do the site digging on my own before even ordering the book, based on all the boulders that we encountered. When I did end up reading the book I had to chuckle that he recommended digging trenches then backfilling which is exactly what I had already done! I think I will go with a TWC thank to all your suggestions for the Marquette and Noiret then. I assuming that since Double A suggests MWC for the Seyval and Chardonel then I will be ok with VSP for them as well correct? The only iffy one is the Cayuga, which the Double A chart says MWC even though it is trailing. Seems like a TWC for the Cayuga and LaCrescent would be ideal as well. Only thing I have to think about now is potential shading issues if I have a TWC row with a thick canopy shadowing a neighboring VSP's lower clusters/leaves.....

 

[grapeman]

I also had to chuckle also when I read that you were digging out the rows and backfilling again as that is the first thing that Jeff Cox always recommends and is good advice about 25% of the time, but one heck of a lot of work as you found out. There are cases where it helps and with all the large rocks you have, you will probably benefit from it.

Shading should not be a problem. Generally you want as far between the rows as the posts are tall to avoid shading problems, which you have. Cayuga grows upright until then get a few feet long, so it will work alright for that. It would also work with TWC except the shoots will reach past the next row so you do need to comb the shoots down often. They will develop nice honking big clusters of a pound or so and make a decent eating grape as well, but are seeded. Chardonel and Seval do well either VSP or TWC.

 

[TimTheWiner]

I did call a local vineyard that grows Cayuga today who said they use VSP. Says it produces slightly less yield than TWC, but he prefers to put more energy/nutrients into fewer clusters for quality.

 

[grapeman]

Where I am the extra vigor is not needed. They have more freeze damage up here so we have fewer shoots and the cluster sizes are typically over a pound apiece. Hard to imagine them being any bigger because VSP was used. Again, either system will work for them so flip a coin.