Mosti Mondiale Alljuice Petite Syrah
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grilljockey
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Readin' my mind.
I loves me a good PS, and was seriously debating it for my next kit. But everyone seems to tout the Barolo and the Amarone....I don't really know enough about Barolo yet and my limited experience with Amarone\, it leaves me dreaming of slightly bitter Sun-Maid raisins (wating for the punches to the gut on that one.....)
I wish someone would be able to chime in after having made all of the AllJuice reds at approximately the same time, given a year or so of aging.....George?....Anyone?....
I loves me a good PS, and was seriously debating it for my next kit. But everyone seems to tout the Barolo and the Amarone....I don't really know enough about Barolo yet and my limited experience with Amarone\, it leaves me dreaming of slightly bitter Sun-Maid raisins (wating for the punches to the gut on that one.....)
I wish someone would be able to chime in after having made all of the AllJuice reds at approximately the same time, given a year or so of aging.....George?....Anyone?....
I have made the Alljuice in Petite Syrah, Amarone and Barolo. Here's what I can tell you to expect. First, I have tweaked the directions on Mosti to where they are now with their new and improved directions with some "tweaking." I am a firm believer in bulk aging and lees contact. If you want complexity and richness, then this is the way to go. If you want a good quality out of the pail product, then follow Mosti. If you decide bulk aging and lees contact, you will need some patience, but I can tell you, I have put my Amarone up against the $100 version and I'm very close. I'm entering the 2008 International Winemaker contest so we'll see what happens.
Here'e what I do:
I let my primary go 2 weeks until I'm below .998 with my raisins in a cloth bag. I do stir 1 to 2x daily pushing on the bag to extract whatever tannins and richness I can get. Next I rack to the secondary, squeezing the bag of raisins andwill put everything back into the secondary minus the raisins. From this point on, it literally sits for 3-4 months with nothing done. It will clear on its own and keep the faith.After the 3rd month or so, I rack, then add clarifiers. I will top off with Amarone and let sit for 1 month. I rack again, top off slightly with Amarone' and sit for 2 weeks and then bottle. I just did my Barolo the same way and thetaste will be very full and complex. You need a good 6 months minimum, preferably 12, to really enjoy an Alljuice wine. Winexpert is better on short turnaround wines. The petite syrah is good and I did Mosti style directions. You will quickly notice that the residual sugars will be more as if the grape variety wasn't the best and/or the sugar conversion did not occur in its entirety. This is what lead me to let primary go longer. I have done some 3 week primary fermentation with some nutrient added to boost yeast fermentation and sugar conversion. You will also notice if you do 2 or 3 Alljuice kits together (of course all red or all white) and follow the Mosti directions, they will have some similar taste qualities with residual sweetness. I almost gave up on these kits, but I started tweaking their directions with Winexpert and bulk aging with oak spirals (can't tell you what else I do, but you will get a very good quality wine). Make sure you keep very good notes (mini-QA program). These notes will help you over time in "tweaking" kits, but really, just enjoy. Amarone' is my favorite followed closely by its cousin the Barolo.
Hope this helps!
John
Here'e what I do:
I let my primary go 2 weeks until I'm below .998 with my raisins in a cloth bag. I do stir 1 to 2x daily pushing on the bag to extract whatever tannins and richness I can get. Next I rack to the secondary, squeezing the bag of raisins andwill put everything back into the secondary minus the raisins. From this point on, it literally sits for 3-4 months with nothing done. It will clear on its own and keep the faith.After the 3rd month or so, I rack, then add clarifiers. I will top off with Amarone and let sit for 1 month. I rack again, top off slightly with Amarone' and sit for 2 weeks and then bottle. I just did my Barolo the same way and thetaste will be very full and complex. You need a good 6 months minimum, preferably 12, to really enjoy an Alljuice wine. Winexpert is better on short turnaround wines. The petite syrah is good and I did Mosti style directions. You will quickly notice that the residual sugars will be more as if the grape variety wasn't the best and/or the sugar conversion did not occur in its entirety. This is what lead me to let primary go longer. I have done some 3 week primary fermentation with some nutrient added to boost yeast fermentation and sugar conversion. You will also notice if you do 2 or 3 Alljuice kits together (of course all red or all white) and follow the Mosti directions, they will have some similar taste qualities with residual sweetness. I almost gave up on these kits, but I started tweaking their directions with Winexpert and bulk aging with oak spirals (can't tell you what else I do, but you will get a very good quality wine). Make sure you keep very good notes (mini-QA program). These notes will help you over time in "tweaking" kits, but really, just enjoy. Amarone' is my favorite followed closely by its cousin the Barolo.
Hope this helps!
John
Jack on Rainy
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jjk,
Do you add sorbate and kmeta just before the clarifiers? ie after the 3rd month or so?
Also, during secondary and long period of lees contact do you control temps to a specific range? Do you stir at all during secondary?Edited by: Jack on Rainy
Do you add sorbate and kmeta just before the clarifiers? ie after the 3rd month or so?
Also, during secondary and long period of lees contact do you control temps to a specific range? Do you stir at all during secondary?Edited by: Jack on Rainy
geocorn
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Thanks for the insight into your technique. My gut feeling is that Mosti's new instructions are telling you that if you treat the kit more like fresh fruit, your wine will be better. I rack before the primary fermentation is complete, but after that, I do not get in a hurry to do anything. Consequently, my wines sit on the lees for 1-3 months. They seem to have more complexity and de-gassing is a breeze.
That is why I tell new wine makers that "patience is the virtue of a good wine maker"
Hope you win some more medals.
That is why I tell new wine makers that "patience is the virtue of a good wine maker"
Hope you win some more medals.
PolishWineP
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Ain't it great!?trashy said:
I didn't see this thread first time around but I have a question. I thought if you left wine on the gross lees (everything from the primary) too long you run the risk of H2s problems from anaerobic decomposition of the yeast. If I recall, the battonage method incorporates stirring every 2-3 days. So do you stir if you give extended contact to the gross lees?
Sorry to everyone, but been busy and forgot forum. My apologies!!! After I rack from the primary to the secondary, I do sterilize a funnel where I will tip the primary fermentor so I can poor off just the juice and leave much of bentonite behind into the secondary. Some will sneek through, but I don't worry about it. This is where I will let the secondary sit with an occasional "shaking" of the fermentor every so often (3-4 days). By doing this, degassing will be a lot easier when I rack to another fementor in 1-2 months. It's this third racking that I will add clarifiers and degas. I can tell you there is a huge advantage in degassing at this point and it clarifies much faster. There's also a noticeable difference in complexity. I have tinkered with this process and feel it is more suitable to the Mosti than Wineexpert. I believe the "real juice" is more natural to this whereas Winexpert is more concentrated and the water addition does not suit this as well, but it is doable. I also use infusion spirals for my oaking where I have used them in the latter part of the racking process and I have just used them in the second racking prior to clarifying to see if the fermenting will extract more oak off flavors. We'll see how this batch goes. As far as temp control, my basement runs around a constant 65-66.Edited by: jjk1991
As far as aging Barolo versus Amarone, my Barolo has been sitting now for 3-4 months and my Amarone has been 1.25 years. I will drink a bottle a month to see what the tannins are doing and what my complexities are. It's a wonderful to do to enjoy, yet it is very interesting to taste the change. Mosti wines change so much more than Wine expert, it's really a joke to compare the two side by side. Basically wine expert gives you a quick quality turnaround wine. Mosti kits require patience and probably some experience in wine kits before trying. My Amarone is almost fully matured and has performed well against the $100 version. Very smooth and full of complexity. The Barolo is coming out drier than my Amarone', but the tannins haven't released as of yet but is in the process. Not quite sure what to make of yet, but the Amarone' did the samething and has turned out very well, so I would expect the same. Edited by: jjk1991
Thanks for the info John. Do you allow the extra lees contact with fruity white wines like the Riesling?
I may just have to make the All Juice Petite Syrah my next red. I just opened a bottle of a WE LE Petit Sirah-Zinfandel and I must say it's one of the very few WE reds I've been impressed with. It's just about two years old now and no KT, nice tannins, good nose. I've never had Petit Sirah before but I'm adding it to my list of favorites. Do you ever add any extra tannin to a hearty red like that? That's one tweak I've been considering .
I may just have to make the All Juice Petite Syrah my next red. I just opened a bottle of a WE LE Petit Sirah-Zinfandel and I must say it's one of the very few WE reds I've been impressed with. It's just about two years old now and no KT, nice tannins, good nose. I've never had Petit Sirah before but I'm adding it to my list of favorites. Do you ever add any extra tannin to a hearty red like that? That's one tweak I've been considering .
Hi Jackie,
My Riesling was my first wine that I tried toincorporate the"cold maturation" process. In all fairness to this technique, I am not doing it to the standard, but I do put my my primary on the basement floor to ferment until my SG hits below .996 (about 3 weeks at 59-60 degrees). I will then rack to the secondary for 3 months sitting on the floor. The critical period for me to achieve the cold period is Dec/January thru March. Once I got my nose and tastes buds into this wine and a gold medal later, I quickly started using it on my whites and reds. You can do it with reds, but I would suggest doing it after March since the fermentation goes much slower. Ironically, my Amarone' finished fermenting going into this period and I now have a fuller complex wine. My Barolo was started during this cold phase and it is drier, but still complex. I know that's why my tannins are having a slower than usual release. If you get chance, you should try Mosti's Malbec. It's really good and my wife prefers this one a little more than the petite syrah. As far as adding anything to wines, I go with them as is unless I have to do something to correct. In my experience, Wine expert has some tolerances in their wines. Mosti does not, which is why I would recommend someone to try a few from Wine expert before Mosti. I'm not taking away from either one, but patience is a must for Mosti and the end result is very temperamental with Mosti. However, the rewards will far surpass other kits I have tried and tasted. Good luck!
My Riesling was my first wine that I tried toincorporate the"cold maturation" process. In all fairness to this technique, I am not doing it to the standard, but I do put my my primary on the basement floor to ferment until my SG hits below .996 (about 3 weeks at 59-60 degrees). I will then rack to the secondary for 3 months sitting on the floor. The critical period for me to achieve the cold period is Dec/January thru March. Once I got my nose and tastes buds into this wine and a gold medal later, I quickly started using it on my whites and reds. You can do it with reds, but I would suggest doing it after March since the fermentation goes much slower. Ironically, my Amarone' finished fermenting going into this period and I now have a fuller complex wine. My Barolo was started during this cold phase and it is drier, but still complex. I know that's why my tannins are having a slower than usual release. If you get chance, you should try Mosti's Malbec. It's really good and my wife prefers this one a little more than the petite syrah. As far as adding anything to wines, I go with them as is unless I have to do something to correct. In my experience, Wine expert has some tolerances in their wines. Mosti does not, which is why I would recommend someone to try a few from Wine expert before Mosti. I'm not taking away from either one, but patience is a must for Mosti and the end result is very temperamental with Mosti. However, the rewards will far surpass other kits I have tried and tasted. Good luck!
Jack on Rainy
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John,
Thanks for this interesting series of posts. I hope you will continue to share your ideas. A couple of additional questions:
- I think I understand you are fermenting both primary and secondary at around 60 degrees. If I am not mistaken, that is below the temp range of Mosti's supplied yeast. Do you use a different yeast? How about yeast nutrients? When to add them?
- Do you have KT in your WE kits? If so, how long before it disapears?
Thanks for this interesting series of posts. I hope you will continue to share your ideas. A couple of additional questions:
- I think I understand you are fermenting both primary and secondary at around 60 degrees. If I am not mistaken, that is below the temp range of Mosti's supplied yeast. Do you use a different yeast? How about yeast nutrients? When to add them?
- Do you have KT in your WE kits? If so, how long before it disapears?
J-,
You would think the lower temperature would prover problematic, but I found ifyou run the fermentation to lower side of the tolerance, you will enhancemore complexity to the wine. Ironically, if I push the higher tolerance of the yeast, it ferments much faster and I lose out on the complexity, but you do get a better conversion of sugar to alcohol. Also, I do use whatever yeast comes with the MM. I have yet to use any nutrients except for a MM AJ Merlot. I followed the directions to the T, but the fermentation got stuck and I added nutrients to give it a boost. I was disappointed in this particular kit and almost didn't do anymore MM. In all fairness this was my first MM AJ kit, so I ordered one more along with a WE and back to my knowledge base and have been producing very good results. I like to use WE kits to curtail my appetite until the MM are done. As far as the KT, no I don't.Edited by: jjk1991
You would think the lower temperature would prover problematic, but I found ifyou run the fermentation to lower side of the tolerance, you will enhancemore complexity to the wine. Ironically, if I push the higher tolerance of the yeast, it ferments much faster and I lose out on the complexity, but you do get a better conversion of sugar to alcohol. Also, I do use whatever yeast comes with the MM. I have yet to use any nutrients except for a MM AJ Merlot. I followed the directions to the T, but the fermentation got stuck and I added nutrients to give it a boost. I was disappointed in this particular kit and almost didn't do anymore MM. In all fairness this was my first MM AJ kit, so I ordered one more along with a WE and back to my knowledge base and have been producing very good results. I like to use WE kits to curtail my appetite until the MM are done. As far as the KT, no I don't.Edited by: jjk1991
I think the two are inclusive, although I have done all temperature ranges with the same technique. I personally believe the cooler temp helps make for a slower more consistent fermentation which enables the complexity to become more enhanced. Its during this process that I will put my oak infusion spirals in to extract the flavor. From the sound of things, George does what I do, but he probably has a higher temp to work with being in Texas and me in the Midwest. Right now, I have an MM Montepulciano and Volle de Sol going, which both fermented on the floor, butare now aging off the floor and on the bench (I usually do my first kit this way prior to going the coolest way). They are at the 2 month mark and the room temp is 62 degrees. Great for the wine, great for my computer, but not warm enough to wear short sleeve.
