And I have used BM45, which is the reputedly problematic half of the composite BM4x4, a half-dozen times with no ill results.
2018 Lodi Cabernet Sauvignon
- Thread starter Johnd
- Start date
Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
Boatboy24
No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
Another plug for BM4X4. I've used Bm45 a few times as well (early on in my winemaking), but now that 4X4 is easily available, I haven't used 45 in a while.
Raftsman Reserve
Junior
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2018
- Messages
- 2
- Reaction score
- 0
Hey guys,
I fermented 180L of must, california cabernet with BM4x4 and used Fermaid-O as prescribed by Morewine! in two doses (which equalled to much more than the recommended total dose by Fermaid, BTW) and the fermentation smelled GREAT until the halfway point, at which point the sulphur stink was king for the rest of the ferment, lots of SO2 bad smell everywhere. Splash racked it afterwards after the press and all, and it is now seemingly in good shape, BUT, CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHAT COULD HAVE POSSIBLY happened in order for this highly touted BM4X4 yeast to produce such rotten egg smell...??
I fermented 180L of must, california cabernet with BM4x4 and used Fermaid-O as prescribed by Morewine! in two doses (which equalled to much more than the recommended total dose by Fermaid, BTW) and the fermentation smelled GREAT until the halfway point, at which point the sulphur stink was king for the rest of the ferment, lots of SO2 bad smell everywhere. Splash racked it afterwards after the press and all, and it is now seemingly in good shape, BUT, CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHAT COULD HAVE POSSIBLY happened in order for this highly touted BM4X4 yeast to produce such rotten egg smell...??
Are you CK in disguise? Lol
For me I just have hit or miss it always gives me issues but some wines turn out okay others turn out a mess.
Fermaid O, in my opinion, is not the proper tool for the job, Fermaid K is what I’ve succeeded with.
All FermO with BM4x4 might be the cause like John said. It lacks the balls that K has. That’s why dosage calls for an extra 50%.
I used it on the 2nd dose for the 1st time. But on a yeast that’s certainly not nutrient needy. Probably coulda not added it at all and been cool.
I swear to god these manufacturers are trying to have us fear DAP products intentionally! - when certain occasions it’s probably very beneficial.
I used it on the 2nd dose for the 1st time. But on a yeast that’s certainly not nutrient needy. Probably coulda not added it at all and been cool.
I swear to god these manufacturers are trying to have us fear DAP products intentionally! - when certain occasions it’s probably very beneficial.
Raftsman Reserve
Junior
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2018
- Messages
- 2
- Reaction score
- 0
Oh, I see. The Morewine! guide calls for Fermaid-0 for dose 1, then Fermaid-K for dose 2. But, I thought somebody out here was saying that DAP should only be added early on, not at the second dose... And, secondly, I guess what you're saying is that the cause of SO2 during fermentation is due to a lack of nutrients...? Thanks guys!
Boatboy24
No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
Hmm. I use O.
Well Jim, you know what they say about opinions...... if it’s working for you and your wine processes, why second guess it? For mine, I believe that my high temp red fermentations are pretty demanding of the yeast, perhaps requiring more pop from the nutrients, and I suspect that the little white specks in Fermaid K are DAP, though I don’t know that for a fact.
Boatboy24
No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
I'm going to have to try and experiment next time around. Who knows, I may be getting some WA Merlot courtesy of @mainshipfred on Monday - maybe I should split the batch.
Saw you two conspiring for another round, looks like a pretty good opportunity at some nice fruit. Interesting experiment to split a batch and try different nutrients, so many variables and so little time.
Boatboy24
No longer a newbie, but still clueless.
Yeah, I talked more with Fred about it on Thursday and am pretty fired up. The winery that he's working with is referring to it as 'Ultra Premium' fruit. Not cheap, but not too bad - specially when they are only about 5 miles from my house.
Split the batch, I never heard of that. LOL! Except for a Sauv Blanc split in 2 my last 10+ batches have been split in 3rds. But that was for yeast not nutrients.
Yep, I think you’re the king of batch-splitters!! Guess I’m currently doing a “split batch” since I’m fermenting separately with two different yeasts, though it’s over a half ton of grapes...
2018 press day is now in the rear view mirror, @Scott Harbison and I did the honors today, noon to 6 from cleaning the first carboy to the last speck of cleanup. One of my childhood buddies (who recently made a wine off of the internet called “Jailhouse Hooch) stopped by and was a big help. We pretty much finished up where expected with 13 - 6 gallon carboys and one 3 gallon, totaling 81 gallons of Lodi Cab. Bout half and half free run and press wine.
Caps were pretty weak as we went 10 days, but this was the best press I’ve had to date, easy on the EX-V and small, thick skinned berries left the skins relatively intact, and very little sludgy mess. Smells, tastes and color from both yeasts was excellent, though the wine is quite tannic, as expected. We broke up every cake after pressing, and pressed it again, picking up several gallons of press run. We debated a bit, but I feel that the color of the D254 was much more deep purple than the BM 4x4, more on that later I suppose.
Off the gross lees a little later this week, and will do the first chromatography test a few weeks later.
Caps were pretty weak as we went 10 days, but this was the best press I’ve had to date, easy on the EX-V and small, thick skinned berries left the skins relatively intact, and very little sludgy mess. Smells, tastes and color from both yeasts was excellent, though the wine is quite tannic, as expected. We broke up every cake after pressing, and pressed it again, picking up several gallons of press run. We debated a bit, but I feel that the color of the D254 was much more deep purple than the BM 4x4, more on that later I suppose.
Off the gross lees a little later this week, and will do the first chromatography test a few weeks later.
Interesting. So you're doing carboys and then heading into the barrel after racking off the gross lees? That's a lot of carboys and a lot of evident work.
After the Lallzyme, I noted a higher proportion of free run and an easier press.
I like the glass fermentation locks. Those look old school but great. Source?
After the Lallzyme, I noted a higher proportion of free run and an easier press.
I like the glass fermentation locks. Those look old school but great. Source?
Well, not quite that quickly. In carboys today, off the gross lees later this week, still in carboys til MLF is complete. When it’s done, the carboys will move to the wine room for a bit to chill and drop some more sediment, then into the barrel.
Truth be told, the free run is strictly what we pumped out of the fermentation vessels before going to the press. Once we started loading the press, the wine that ran out freely, was collected with the press wine and labeled as press wine. No real big deal, as the free and press wine from both yeasts will ultimately end up in the barrel together.
My local HBS had the glass air locks and I bought em all, he reordered more for me and wasn’t able to completely fill the order, as the supplier no longer produced them. I’ve had em for several years, never really looked for any more. I like that you can really see the slightest activity, there’s almost none to speak of, though all of the carboys have positive pressure in them. Friends who see the wine stored on the house at this stage refer to it as my meth lab.....
Great update John. I ended up pressing today too and felt like I was reading my own account.
-I pressed then broke up the entire cake and re-pressed for the 1st time. Press was filled to the top. Had to use the damn garden tiller!
-had much less free run than normal.
-went a little light on the EX V. And my berries were also tight and small. A large portion were not broken at crush. The end result was similar
ot the typical mush I’m used to when using lallzyme.
-the difference was I had no help! So much work. I think Im takin a long break till next fall.
Congrats on another successful winemaking season!
-I pressed then broke up the entire cake and re-pressed for the 1st time. Press was filled to the top. Had to use the damn garden tiller!
-had much less free run than normal.
-went a little light on the EX V. And my berries were also tight and small. A large portion were not broken at crush. The end result was similar
ot the typical mush I’m used to when using lallzyme. -the difference was I had no help! So much work. I think Im takin a long break till next fall.
Congrats on another successful winemaking season!
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2011
- Messages
- 6,108
- Reaction score
- 10,829
John, can you taste much of a difference between the free run and the press?
