2018 IKEA Lingonberry

[M38A1]

Inspired by sgx2's thread here, I just had to give this a whirl today armed with his instructions and a little bit of knowledge I've learned in such a short time. I have no real expectations for the final product as it just seemed like a fun experiment and a bit of 'cool' factor. That's how I look at it.

Basics include:
3/500ml bottles of IKEA Lingonberry concentrate
1gal Spring Water (that's what it took to get to SG1.087)
1tsp Pectic Enzyme
3tsp Yeast Nutrient
1/2tsp Tannin
1pkg EC-1118

Starting numbers:
SG 1.087
pH 2.7
Acid .60%

I'm going in - wish me luck!

 

[M38A1]

Yeast pitch / +1 day
Not much to report.... It's just sitting there with a tad bit of foam cap developing.

Starting numbers:
SG 1.087 / 1.087
pH 2.7 / 2.8
Temp 74 / 74

 

[DAB]

It will take some time...perhaps 48 hours before those yeast cells have acclimated and start going to town on the sugar. That 2.7 pH seems VERY low and doesn't correlate with the acid number of .60%...I would expect to see something in the mid 3.?s, especially with an acid number like that. I just recently had a problem with my pH meter giving me incorrect numbers, had to re-set it, re-calibrate it and re-test--presto, it worked!

Keep us posted.
DAB

 

[M38A1]

It will take some time...perhaps 48 hours before those yeast cells have acclimated and start going to town on the sugar. That 2.7 pH seems VERY low and doesn't correlate with the acid number of .60%...I would expect to see something in the mid 3.?s, especially with an acid number like that. I just recently had a problem with my pH meter giving me incorrect numbers, had to re-set it, re-calibrate it and re-test--presto, it worked!

Keep us posted.
DAB

This is where I become confused some.... It's been explained to me that pH is the strength of the acid and the Total Acid number is how much there is by volume. I'm still trying to process that in my head. My thought is I can try to correct that on the back end, or just let this run and see what happens and correct on the next batch. pH meter (Jellas) was calibrated that day too.

 

[DAB]

This is where I become confused some.... It's been explained to me that pH is the strength of the acid and the Total Acid number is how much there is by volume. I'm still trying to process that in my head. My thought is I can try to correct that on the back end, or just let this run and see what happens and correct on the next batch. pH meter (Jellas) was calibrated that day too.

Honestly, I think there are folks here that are more experienced than me who can speak much more intelligently about this topic then I can. I'm just saying I think the pH seems very low in this case.

 

[Johnd]

This is where I become confused some.... It's been explained to me that pH is the strength of the acid and the Total Acid number is how much there is by volume. I'm still trying to process that in my head. My thought is I can try to correct that on the back end, or just let this run and see what happens and correct on the next batch. pH meter (Jellas) was calibrated that day too.

Without getting too deep into the weeds, just know that high acid musts are more complicated to handle. Period. The chemistry can be challenging, and reconciling pH and TA is inconsistent. You could have a high pH must with a high TA if you have a large quantity of weak acids, and the inverse is true, though not prevalent.

The high acid challenge of the winemaker is a balancing act between pH and TA, but a high TA won’t kill a fermentation if the pH is in line, but a low pH will, which is why we were focusing on getting your pH to a level for a successful fermentation with no stalling / yeast stress / hydrogen sulfide problems.

As you become more proficient and have solid, reliable pH / TA numbers, by all means, work them together, but remember where the rubber meets the road, proper pH will get your juice to wine without stinky problems. My second concern was that you had light colored juice sitting around, prone to oxidation and spoilage while we were trying to manage your challenge so you could pitch yeast.

Here’s a reading that’s pretty good on the topic:

http://wine.wsu.edu/2010/10/13/managing-high-acidity/

 

[M38A1]

Thanks John.... I'll read that when I get home this evening.

And to add to the confusion of terms is "...You could have a high pH must with a high TA....." When you say "high pH, that's actually a lower number on the read-out, right? Still learning here on a ballistic trajectory and I very much appreciate your patience with this newbie.

 

[Johnd]

Thanks John.... I'll read that when I get home this evening.

And to add to the confusion of terms is "...You could have a high pH must with a high TA....." When you say "high pH, that's actually a lower number on the read-out, right? Still learning here on a ballistic trajectory and I very much appreciate your patience with this newbie.

No, high pH means less strong acid, higher the number, less strong the acid.

 

[M38A1]

No, high pH means less strong acid, higher the number, less strong the acid.

Ah..... the higher the pH the less strong the acid / the lower the pH the more strong the acid which in turn makes yeast converting sugar to alcohol more difficult below a certain point in that 3.2 range. I think I'm getting this.....

 

[M38A1]

Yeast pitch / +2 days
Foam cap is still there and it's percolating.

Starting numbers / subsequent numbers
SG 1.087 / 1.087 / 1.080
pH 2.7 / 2.8 / 2.8
Temp 74 / 74 / 75

 

[M38A1]

Yeast pitch / +3 days
Still just bubbling away. At this rate in three days I can move to the secondary is my guess.

Starting numbers / subsequent numbers
SG 1.087 / 1.087 / 1.080 / 1.060

 

[Johnd]

Yeast pitch / +3 days
Still just bubbling away. At this rate in three days I can move to the secondary is my guess.

Starting numbers / subsequent numbers
SG 1.087 / 1.087 / 1.080 / 1.060

Wait until it’s below 1.010, or risk the dreaded wine volcano.....

 

[M38A1]

Will do! It's at 1.04 this evening or +6 days post yeast-pitch. For grins I stuck my nose in the top of the primary and I won't be doing that again anytime soon. Wowzer did that clean out my nostrils.

 

[Johnd]

Will do! It's at 1.04 this evening or +6 days post yeast-pitch. For grins I stuck my nose in the top of the primary and I won't be doing that again anytime soon. Wowzer did that clean out my nostrils.

A big whiff of CO2 will do that.....

 

[M38A1]

It's getting close! Still just little bubbles in there doing their thing. I'm thinking about transferring it to a clean glass carboy with an airlock tomorrow since it's just in an open pail with a towel at the moment. Then I'll keep an eye on it for its march down to .995ish, transfer to another clean carboy, add some k-meta and wait a few months before doing anything else with it. Unless someone has a better idea! I'm open to any suggestions at this point.

Yeast pitch +9 days

Starting numbers / subsequent numbers
SG 1.087 / 1.087 / 1.080 / 1.060 / 1.006

 

[M38A1]

Closer! I find it hard to determine the difference between SG.992 and .990 so I'm going to take this as a sign it's getting really close. Two days ago it was .992, tonight.990. That might just be the difference in how I'm reading it. pH was 4.6 from an initial starting point of 2.8. That struck me as odd. Calibrated two days ago was 4.4. Not sure what that really means at this point but I won't worry too much.

My big question is, should this taste like wine? Like my muscadine, it seems bubbly across the tongue, doesn't smell great (CO2?) and isn't dry across the tongue. I'm assuming that's the aging part when that happens.

Yeast pitch +13 days

Starting numbers / subsequent numbers
SG 1.087 / 1.087 / 1.080 / 1.060 / 1.006 / .992 / .990

 

[cmason1957]

PH readings while it is fermenting are not to be believed. The Co2 confuses the pH meter.

 

[M38A1]

PH readings while it is fermenting are not to be believed. The Co2 confuses the pH meter.

Thank you! That's just one more piece of the information puzzle to work with.

 

[M38A1]

The IKEA Lingonberry I'll affectionately call "Groggy" has been racked off to sit for a few months. This is a fun experiment for sure.

 

[PeteM]

I happened to be near Ikea today and couldn't help myself. It's going to be a while until I get around to these, but I figured each would be a fun little experiment. I'd love to hear how your Lingonberry turns out.