“We are moving Alabama with the times," gov says after signing wine delivery bill... :D

[jswordy]

Alabamians will soon be able to have a bottle of pinot noir or chardonnay delivered in the mail after Gov. Kay Ivey on Thursday signed wine shipment legislation into law.

Only wine producers could do shipments and not retailers. People could do wine-of-the-month clubs only if the wine is shipped from the producer.

https://apnews.com/article/alabama-...and-politics-ab564cb858f623a7bdf56c4b368772f1

 

[Boatboy24]

Welcome to the world!

 

[Johnd]

We’re still in the Stone Age in LA, there’s a bill in the legislature to fix it, but it’s not looking good. Currently, if you have a distributor in the state, you can’t sell directly to the consumer, thanks to the Big Alcohol lobbyists.....

 

[heatherd]

You've passed up MD. I still have to get a friend pick up my wine in VA, acting as a wine mule.

 

[G259]

Tell them that they will get more tax money if it can be bought in the state, dollars to doughnuts (pun intended), they will change their minds!
"I get more money to play with?"

 

[winemaker81]

North Carolina is surprising modern in this respect, although a lot has been relatively recent. I used to receive shipments from NY wineries labeled "machine parts". Seriously, this happened. I can't remember exactly when the law changed on that.

The "blue laws" have modernized a lot, as recently as 2017. In the mid-90's (IIRC) wine & beer sales on Sunday opened up, it was something like 1PM to 6PM. Over the years the law has shifted positively -- As of the 2017 "brunch bill", alcohol can be sold as early as 10AM on Sundays. If I shop at Costco Sunday morning, I can buy!!!

We have 1 dry county left, although 1 municipality there allows alcohol sales; the remainder of the county is dry.

OTOH, we still have the ABC system, although that's gotten a lot better. It used to be the choice for tequila was 4 or 5 brands. About 8 years ago I needed more tequila (like it, but don't drink a lot, a bottle can last years) and realized there were about 40 brands of tequila in that section. A number of the older stores have moved as the old locations lacked space. So things are getting better.

 

[jswordy]

North Carolina is surprising modern in this respect, although a lot has been relatively recent. I used to receive shipments from NY wineries labeled "machine parts". Seriously, this happened. I can't remember exactly when the law changed on that.

The "blue laws" have modernized a lot, as recently as 2017. In the mid-90's (IIRC) wine & beer sales on Sunday opened up, it was something like 1PM to 6PM. Over the years the law has shifted positively -- As of the 2017 "brunch bill", alcohol can be sold as early as 10AM on Sundays. If I shop at Costco Sunday morning, I can buy!!!

We have 1 dry county left, although 1 municipality there allows alcohol sales; the remainder of the county is dry.

OTOH, we still have the ABC system, although that's gotten a lot better. It used to be the choice for tequila was 4 or 5 brands. About 8 years ago I needed more tequila (like it, but don't drink a lot, a bottle can last years) and realized there were about 40 brands of tequila in that section. A number of the older stores have moved as the old locations lacked space. So things are getting better.

I absolutely love the "foodie" atmosphere of North Carolina. The state also gets points from me because it promotes its own wines and other agricultural products heavily. On the other hand, I have been there enough to know the dual political pulls on the state, each heading off in opposite directions. Smetimes they make for interesting outcomes.

I have lived in VA and TN under blue laws, before they finally were removed, so I know what you are saying. A former Illinoisan, I was like, "What? You say I can't buy alcohol except at certain times? What the heck is that about?"

Things can get very complex when it comes to alcohol and the Southland.

I live in TN and work in AL now. There are 24 dry counties in Alabama (which also has ABC stores in wet counties but allows private stores, too). The "big city" is in AL, so I need to be very careful about crossing state lines with too much beer, wine or liquor. Transporting more than 5 gallons of any of those into AL is a felony (1-6 years in prison). But the other direction is the rub.

Coming from the Alabama "big city" into Tennessee, the laws are worse. TN allows ZERO transport into the state. Amounts of less than three gallons of alcoholic beverage is a misdemeanor punishable by a $500 fine. More than three gallons is a felony.

There are 9 dry, 10 wet, and 76 moist counties in TN's 95 counties. A moist county is where sales of alcohol are permitted in certain jurisdictions. Some permit stores, some liquor by the drink, and some both. My county permits both.

Southern legislatures are controlled by money from the big liquor concerns, for sure. For example, in TN, until recently you could not buy wine except at a liquor store. And liquor store owners can still only own ONE store. Goofy laws, if you ask me. But just a part of it.

 

[winemaker81]

I absolutely love the "foodie" atmosphere of North Carolina. The state also gets points from me because it promotes its own wines and other agricultural products heavily. On the other hand, I have been there enough to know the dual political pulls on the state, each heading off in opposite directions. Smetimes they make for interesting outcomes.

We moved to Raleigh in '93, and at that time there was *1* Greek restaurant in all of the Raleigh/Durham metro area, which had a total population of over 500,000. There were, at most, a handful of independent pizza shops (most were chain stores), and forget finding an ethnic market. OTOH, there were quite a few Mexican restaurants, of low to medium quality and zero authenticity.

We came from Utica/Rome, NY, and in comparison, in Rome there was 2 chain pizza shops and well over a dozen independent pizza shops. The population was mostly Italian and Polish extraction, so good markets were available. We get fresh pierogi and kielbasa when visiting. Moving to Raleigh was a culture shock.

28 years later? Italian, Polish, Indian, Mediterranean markets abound, as do restaurants. It's totally different.

NC promotes its winery trade. When I moved here, there were a couple dozen wineries. Now? There's 8 within 30 miles of Raleigh, and Raleigh is far from being prime winery country. The NC Wine site indicates there are 119 total in NC.

https://www.ncwine.org/wineries#
Note that for Vinifera, the northwest part of the state around Winston-Salem is the place to go. In the southeast, Muscadine and Scuppernong reign, although the wineries I've visited buy Vinifera and hybrids from elsewhere and market them. In between, French-American hybrids grow well.

In my area, hybrids will now grow well, it's all Muscadine & Scuppernong. If I moved 30 miles northwest I could grow hybrids, and another 30 miles beyond that, Vinifera. I don't care for most of the native grape wines, so growing is not in my future. The wines I've had are all well made; they just are not my taste.

In comparison to the conditions in TN and AL, I am happy with NC!

 

[Swedeman]

Transporting more than 5 gallons of any of those into AL is a felony (1-6 years in prison)

Seriously?

 

[G259]

. . . they might have to prove you were selling it, although maybe not though.

 

[winemaker81]

. . . they might have to prove you were selling it, although maybe not though.

Nope, it appears that in TN, transportation of more than 5 gallons of wine is unlawful.

§ 57-3-102. Traffic in intoxicating liquor permitted by local option.

• (b) It shall be lawful for an individual to transport up to five gallons (5 gals.) of alcoholic beverages or wine for personal or household use of the individual in counties or municipalities that have not permitted the sale of alcoholic beverages or wine by local option elections as provided in this chapter and amounts in excess of five gallons (5 gals.) if accompanied by a receipt or other documentation demonstrating legal purchase or transport from an entity licensed under § 57-3-203, § 57-3-204, § 57-3-207 or § 57-3-218.

This is from Justia, a legal information retrieval site. It may not be 100% up to date, but was law in the recent past.

Tennessee Code § 57-3-102 (2019) - Traffic in intoxicating liquor permitted by local option. :: 2019 Tennessee Code :: US Codes and Statutes :: US Law :: Justia

In reading through various articles, the legislators are restricting alcohol access to protect the citizens. The real issue appears to be taxation ...

 

[Swedeman]

1-6 years here in Sweden would mean that you have done some sort of violent crime like armed robbery, but it has to be serious/aggravated one. Not sure of the correct English term here: "serious", "aggravated", "capital", "gross" or...

 

[winemaker81]

1-6 years here in Sweden would mean that you have done some sort of violent crime like armed robbery, but it has to be serious/aggravated one. Not sure of the correct English term here: "serious", "aggravated", "capital", "gross" or...

If I understand correctly, serious and aggravated are correct terms. In the USA, "capital" indicate the possibility of the death penalty, which applies only if the victim dies from the assault. "Gross" applies to misdemeanors (lesser crimes) and indicates the crime is on the higher end of the scale. This may vary in some jurisdictions, but overall should be correct.

 

[jswordy]

Again, as far as importing alcohol, in Alabama, you cannot bring more than 5 gallons into the state from elsewhere. In Tennessee, you cannot bring ANY into the state from elsewhere. Penalties are in my post above.

 

[jswordy]

We moved to Raleigh in '93, and at that time there was *1* Greek restaurant in all of the Raleigh/Durham metro area, which had a total population of over 500,000. There were, at most, a handful of independent pizza shops (most were chain stores), and forget finding an ethnic market. OTOH, there were quite a few Mexican restaurants, of low to medium quality and zero authenticity.

We came from Utica/Rome, NY, and in comparison, in Rome there was 2 chain pizza shops and well over a dozen independent pizza shops. The population was mostly Italian and Polish extraction, so good markets were available. We get fresh pierogi and kielbasa when visiting. Moving to Raleigh was a culture shock.

28 years later? Italian, Polish, Indian, Mediterranean markets abound, as do restaurants. It's totally different.

NC promotes its winery trade. When I moved here, there were a couple dozen wineries. Now? There's 8 within 30 miles of Raleigh, and Raleigh is far from being prime winery country. The NC Wine site indicates there are 119 total in NC.

https://www.ncwine.org/wineries#
Note that for Vinifera, the northwest part of the state around Winston-Salem is the place to go. In the southeast, Muscadine and Scuppernong reign, although the wineries I've visited buy Vinifera and hybrids from elsewhere and market them. In between, French-American hybrids grow well.

In my area, hybrids will now grow well, it's all Muscadine & Scuppernong. If I moved 30 miles northwest I could grow hybrids, and another 30 miles beyond that, Vinifera. I don't care for most of the native grape wines, so growing is not in my future. The wines I've had are all well made; they just are not my taste.

In comparison to the conditions in TN and AL, I am happy with NC!

Yeah, moving here from ethnically diverse Illinois has been a hardship when it comes to restaurants. All chains, all the time here. They think it is something special when a new chain eatery opens. SMH. Very rare to see a local place, and the overall range is limited. If I want something original, it pretty much has to come from my own kitchen.

When we visit lil ol Black Mountain and see the cornucopia at the local Ingle's, it's amazing. I have an Ingle's Advantage card in my wallet right now. Thing about NC is how it is so distinctly pulled in two very different directions. Interesting state.

It's not all bad in TN for me, though. I live 30 miles from Jack Daniel, share the aquifer, and have a dozen other distilleries and who knows how many breweries within 25 miles of home that have grown up in the last 30 years. Very low cost of living. Just draconian attitudes and politics for my tastes. It was a solid centrist state when we moved here 31 years ago. No more. And it's not much of a wine area, unless it's muscadine. So I am totally cut off from non-native grapes.

 

[Swedeman]

Thanks Bryan! Then I got it correctly, I still can't understand how transporting more than 5 gallons into AL could be a felony and not a misdemeanor?

FWIW lifetime in Sweden means 16 years in prison on an average but that has changed now so lifetime can't be less than 18 years.

 

[jswordy]

1-6 years here in Sweden would mean that you have done some sort of violent crime like armed robbery, but it has to be serious/aggravated one. Not sure of the correct English term here: "serious", "aggravated", "capital", "gross" or...

You can get 6 years in Tennessee for possession of ONE marijuana plant. I looked that up after I found one that one of my neighbors had planted one in my pasture.

 

[winemaker81]

I still can't understand how transporting more than 5 gallons into AL could be a felony and not a misdemeanor?

Some laws in the USA can be extremely bizarre. In this case, the law probably had 2 driving forces. TN is in the middle of the Bible Belt. a large area of the SE USA that historically had a large influence from conservative Christian sects that generally frowned on alcohol consumption. The second driver is taxes -- all governments want their tax revenue and many come down hard on those that evade it. Alcohol is the target of both, so a tremendously out-of-whack law is on the books.

NC has moved far from that mindset, farther than most of the neighboring states. But our government recognizes that alcohol is big business. Even small wineries produce tourism, so the state collects taxes not only on the wine sold, but on food, lodging, and other entertainment.

About 13 years ago the laws were changed regarding small breweries. Brewpubs sprang up -- there are probably a dozen brewpubs within 20 miles of my home. I just did a search and found 4 I did not know about.

Aviator, in Fuquay-Varina NC, has a taproom at the brewery, and in town a restaurant, 2 pubs, and a bottle store. In 13 years it went from a microbrewery housed in an airplane hanger (hence the name) into a multi-million dollar business.

Yup, it's big business.

 

[jswordy]

Some laws in the USA can be extremely bizarre. In this case, the law probably had 2 driving forces. TN is in the middle of the Bible Belt. a large area of the SE USA that historically had a large influence from conservative Christian sects that generally frowned on alcohol consumption. The second driver is taxes -- all governments want their tax revenue and many come down hard on those that evade it. Alcohol is the target of both, so a tremendously out-of-whack law is on the books.

NC has moved far from that mindset, farther than most of the neighboring states. But our government recognizes that alcohol is big business. Even small wineries produce tourism, so the state collects taxes not only on the wine sold, but on food, lodging, and other entertainment.

About 13 years ago the laws were changed regarding small breweries. Brewpubs sprang up -- there are probably a dozen brewpubs within 20 miles of my home. I just did a search and found 4 I did not know about.

Aviator, in Fuquay-Varina NC, has a taproom at the brewery, and in town a restaurant, 2 pubs, and a bottle store. In 13 years it went from a microbrewery housed in an airplane hanger (hence the name) into a multi-million dollar business.

Yup, it's big business.

In Tennessee, where I live, it is taxes and the influence of the big distillery and liquor lobby that keeps importation of any amount illegal. TN has a hidden excise tax on booze paid by the bottler. Anything from out of state not only negates state sales tax, but also that hidden excise tax. In Alabama, where I work, it is more a blend of religion, the liquor lobby and taxes that sets the five-gallon importation limit. But Huntsville, AL, the town I work in, has a plethora of brewery taprooms, so many I can't even count them all anymore. There are lots of liquor stores. Booze is just expensive after all the hidden and sales taxes on it, as it basically is in all Southern states. That's an incentive for people to bootleg it in, and so it is illegal.

The South is coming along on alcohol, but very slowly compared to Northern states. Illinois is literally wide open. You can buy hard liquor at groceries and convenience stores there. I don't see that coming here anytime real soon.

 

[Boatboy24]

You can get 6 years in Tennessee for possession of ONE marijuana plant. I looked that up after I found one that one of my neighbors had planted one in my pasture.

"Not mine, officer. My neighbor must've put it there."