Ohio Bob
Senior Member
I thought you were thinking about 4-5 yeasts? If you’re only going to do 1 yeast then please pull my suggestion for RP15. I in no way want to hijack this experiment.
Zinfandel grapes -> wine! A new member's introduction via a 75L of red deliciousness.
- Thread starter tjmeyer
- Start date
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I thought you were thinking about 4-5 yeasts? If you’re only going to do 1 yeast then please pull my suggestion for RP15. I in no way want to hijack this experiment.
I'm fine with this if we blend. I think I'd want to do it before press, thoughts?
This is intended to be a forum-led wine make! No bad suggestions. I love all these yeast suggestions! So far we are planning on rp15 for a batch (feel free to add more if you'd like!) and bm4x4 and/or amh on a second ferment. Then blend after/before(tbd) press
Last fall I used Renaissance Avante and Bravo for separate batches of Chambourcin, Cabernet Sauvignon, and Cabernet Franc, blending after fermentation.
For the Chambourcin, I kept small quantities of each for later testing. The difference between the 2 strains is significant. Avante eats 25-30% of the malic acid, and taste testing indicates this is true.
I do both field blending and pre-bottling selective blending. Both work although field blending is a lot easier to manage. Ya roll the dice, and ya gets what ya gets.
IMO, use multiple strains, press 'em all together, and don't sweat it.
Data 3/12/2024
Sweetness!
The top of the must was defrosted enough to take a sample from this morning. First sample from the top of the must measured at 17.5°. Second sample from the sample port (near bottom) measured at just over 30° this morning.
Acid
This was indistinguishable from yesterday. Somewhere in between 3.4-3.6pH
Temperature
It no longer has solid ice, but is still very slushy. Temperature is still hovering between 1-2°C.
Sweetness!
The top of the must was defrosted enough to take a sample from this morning. First sample from the top of the must measured at 17.5°. Second sample from the sample port (near bottom) measured at just over 30° this morning.
Acid
This was indistinguishable from yesterday. Somewhere in between 3.4-3.6pH
Temperature
It no longer has solid ice, but is still very slushy. Temperature is still hovering between 1-2°C.
Attachments
I suspect the center is much colder and keeping the temps down on the thermometer. Once the temps start to rise at all over 2° I'll bet that the defrosting is finally done and a good mix is in order.
I'd stir twice a day, as much as possible, until the temperature hits 17 C / 63 F. At that point I'd make the starter around 6PM and plan to inoculate in the morning.
I think I'm going to do a pump over for a few hours tomorrow. I realize this isn't something a home winemaker will likely have, but a home winemaker probably doesn't have to stir 20+ gallons at time lol
I make 8 lug batches, typically fermented in 4 lug grouping for manageability. We have members who buy 1,000+ lb lots ... so you'd be surprised what folks do.
In 2022 and 2023, I posted polls asking how much wine folks make. Here's the 2023 poll.
https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/how-much-wine-do-you-make-2023.77755/
Stirring it is!
Pumpover is fine, I have no opinion other than if the must is mixed as it defrosts, it will be more homogeneous when you check SG and inoculate.Stirring it is!
Well, I'll go in between! The grapes are in a false bottom fermenter. So I drop a gallon at a time and pour over manually.
Here's how the must looks today. The bubbles are not fermentation, I was pouring over causing that.
This inconsistency with the sugar content is pretty normal. I expect it to steadily rise from here, now that all the grape flesh has defrosted. Nothing too exciting today. Slow and steady!
Data 03/14/2014
Temps
Coming in at 15°C / 59°F this morning. Ambient temperature is between 19-20°C. Check the temps at any time here.
Sugar
Juice sample from the must (after 4 sessions of 10 gallons of pour over) is measuring at 21.1°Brix.
pH
The pH continues to be consistently slightly lower than 3.6 and certainly higher than 3.2 (chem strip test). More accurate tests have not been conducted. Best estimation is 3.4-3.5pH.
Note: camera picks up the red from the wine much more than it does in-person. So there'll have to just be a little trust here.
Sensory Inspection
Must tastes exceptionally sweet. No noticeable off flavors. Color is a little light for Zinfandel.
Temps
Coming in at 15°C / 59°F this morning. Ambient temperature is between 19-20°C. Check the temps at any time here.
Sugar
Juice sample from the must (after 4 sessions of 10 gallons of pour over) is measuring at 21.1°Brix.
pH
The pH continues to be consistently slightly lower than 3.6 and certainly higher than 3.2 (chem strip test). More accurate tests have not been conducted. Best estimation is 3.4-3.5pH.
Note: camera picks up the red from the wine much more than it does in-person. So there'll have to just be a little trust here.
Sensory Inspection
Must tastes exceptionally sweet. No noticeable off flavors. Color is a little light for Zinfandel.
Temp is raising nicely! Hoping to see a little more sugar tomorrow and then we can make some choices. In
the spirit of making a wine together, what would you do:
1. Do we want to do a more accurate pH test?
2. Do we want to boost/add sugar (chaptalize is the fancy word for this) this must assuming we stay around 21-22°? (This is a common practice)
Personal opinion only: Normally I would not mess with pH that's this close to optimal already, so I don't see a need to. I have no opinion on chaptalization. Very interested in everyone's opinions!
the spirit of making a wine together, what would you do:
1. Do we want to do a more accurate pH test?
2. Do we want to boost/add sugar (chaptalize is the fancy word for this) this must assuming we stay around 21-22°? (This is a common practice)
Personal opinion only: Normally I would not mess with pH that's this close to optimal already, so I don't see a need to. I have no opinion on chaptalization. Very interested in everyone's opinions!
I've never made wine from fresh grapes (yet) but IMO I'd be happy enough with anything above 21 brix but a little higher would be better if I was wanting a little more kick. I also think it's less about alcohol and more about finish and quality. I'd happily give up 1% to 2% abv for a better tasting wine.
When you say the wine is very sweet, is this a negative or positive in your experience with zin? Is this out of the ordinary? In your experience, does this perceived extra sweetness transfer over to the finished product? What is your take on this?
Nope. The pH is in the middle of a good range so relatively minor differences will not matter.
I purchased a pH meter last year, and while I find it helpful, it's not a requirement.
At bottling time I adjust acid by taste, since the pH meter (or test strips) won't drink the wine so I don't care about their opinion.
If making a bigger red, I'd chaptalize to 24 brix, which should produce a bit over 14% ABV. For a lighter wine, 21-22 brix is fine.
Sounds good! We won't touch acid unless by taste. I agree with this 100% also. The strips are a game changer imo.
I have a feeling the sugar content will continue to rise as it reaches room temp and sits on the skins. It will rise further if we use enzymes to help with grape flesh breakdown, but freezing also does this nicely (which it was). Let's aim for 14% ABV as we go.
For Zinfandel, this is a positive, but it also depends. From a taste perspective, sweetness masks and modifies acid and tannin, in fact it's more or less impossible (for me) to taste a whole lot through a ton of sugar. A very sweet zin that has a good pH balance is a good thing. A very sweet zin that is acidic is a red flag but not a deal breaker especially if you like acid; it just means that your must may be sweeter than you can actually taste. A blander than normal zin, again by taste, not measure, that is also acidic is probably must I would chose to make into something else (port, juice) or blend with something that isn't acidic enough, etc. A bland zin that is basic is not something I really see, but I don't think I'd try to use it. Typically an acidic zin that is dry must is simply a bad harvest, probably much too early or unsorted to the point of ruining it. I hope that helps. Like @winemaker81 said, taste is the ultimate measure, not your tools. Your tools are only there to create a baseline, consistency, and detect what your tongue can't--yet. In the end, once you complete a fermentation and there's very little sugar left, all those things your tools could detect and you couldn't will be, for better or worse, very apparent.
