Second attempt at wine from grapes

[Paulie vino]

This is my second year making wine from grapes after a few years of juice buckets. Last year's wine did not come out too good, I think the issue was moldy overripe grapes and then I ran into some funky smells during fermentation. That wine is all bottled now so we'll see how it turns out as time goes on.

This year I upgraded my lab equipment with a pH meter and acid test kit so I have more data to reflect on if things don't turn out well. I planned on doing 2 lugs of zinfandel and one syrah but due to my schedule and the grape availability I went with 2 Barbera and one zinfandel (central valley "pia" grapes). They looked good when unpacking, no mold, not many raisins and mostly intact berries/clusters. I got about 11.5 gallons of must. The numbers after the crush were SG 1.093, brix 22.5, pH3.51, TA 5( I may have fudged the TA a bit).

I added 3.77g kmeta based on my calculations and 1.15g of lallzyme ex and went to bed.

In the morning I checked the numbers again and they are SG 1.096, brix 23, pH 3.56, TA 5.5-5.7 ( I overshot he TA so it's somewhere in that range). Not too bad, maybe a little low on the sugar but better than last year's 27.5 brix cab franc. I didn't bother adjusting since TA seemed close enough and I had limited time before work. I made a yeast starter with goferm and avante adding must a little at a time and then pitched it when the temps were about 15 degrees apart. Also added optired and ft rouge. Now I wait and hope this year goes better than last. I was hoping for higher acid with the Barbera, the zinfandel should give it some body. hopefully it will make a nice everyday red wine for dinner. I may adjust the acid during bulk aging just to experiment and learn.

Thanks to everyone on this forum, it's been a great source of information and advice.

 

[cmason1957]

I wouldn't necessarily think you will need to adjust the TA. For me, pre-ferment for red wine grapes, I try to get the ph somewhere between 3.5 and 3.7. I don't even bother with the TA. After ferment and MLF are completed, probably even after I have added some oak and it's about time to think about bottling, then I taste it and decide if the wine needs just a bit more acidic bite to it. It seldom needs to have any removed.

My magic number for Ph of whites is somewhere around 3.2-3.4.

That's just my way, trying to hit magic numbers exactly has probably ruined more wine than it has helped.

 

[Paulie vino]

Thanks for the info about the acid.

Fermentation has been going well so far until recently. I added 17.24 grams of fermaid o ( suggested rate is 1.5g /gal and I had 11.5 gal of must) at the beginning of fermentation (about 13 hours after I pitched the yeast). Things were going well after that, good cap formation, smelled good, temp of the must was high 60s - low 70s which is where I wanted it to be, fermentation was going very strong. Last night (about 1.5 days after pitching the yeast) the brix was 15.5 (1/3rd sugar depletion), so I added the second round of fermaid o ( 17.24g) and went to bed, the temp of the must was 77 prior to added the fermaid o. I checked early this morning and the temp of the cap was 90, once mixed the must temp was 87.

I know the temperature spikes during fermentation but did I add too much fermaid o? The bag which I got from more wine says to add 1.5 g at 1/3 sugar depletion but other sources I read said two doses. But how many grams per does? Do calculate 1.5g/gallon and split that into 2 doses of 8.6g. Or do I do two doses of the full 17.25g? The more wine manual says two doses, one at beginning of fermentation and one at 1/3rd sugar depletion but this is for fermaid k not fermaid o, not sure if that makes a difference.

I used go ferm protect to rehydrate the yeast, so is that enough nutrient to get the yeast to the 1/3rd sugar depletion point or is an addition of fermaid o necessary at the onset of fermentation? It seems like a lot of nutrient between the go ferm and 2 doses of fermaid o.

I used ice packs and frozen water bottles to bring the temp back to the high 70s. Hopefully the temp spike is over and it will stay in that range.

The pic of the foam is after punching down the cap last night prior to adding the second dose of fermaid o. Fermentation was going strong

 

[CDrew]

I would not worry about a temp spike of 90F. You have a healthy and typical Avante fermentation happening. I feed Fermaid O twice. And I use more than more wine recommends by a small amount. My typical is 1.5 grams/gallon when the first cap forms and 0.75grams per gallon a day or two later. You added what sounds like slightly more than that, but I would not worry. At those temps your fermentation will be over in a day or two! I have had Avante and Bravo both finish below -0- brix in just 5 days, so I'd say you are right on schedule! This year was a bit cooler for me and the Avante/Primitivo took 8 days to go dry.

Anyway, it sounds like you are having a good year.

 

[Jay A]

I usually split the total nutrient addition in 1/2. First addition at cap formation, second at 1/3 sugar drop.

 

[Paulie vino]

I usually split the total nutrient addition in 1/2. First addition at cap formation, second at 1/3 sugar drop.

So in this case you would split 17.25g in half and add 8.6g at cap formation and another 8.6g at 1/3 sugar drop? Just want to make sure I'm understanding completely. That seems like a more reasonable amount to add.

My goal is to avoid a big spike in temp and I think the second dose of fermaid o caused the spike, so perhaps a smaller second dose is the better option, as CDrew recommended.

 

[CDrew]

It's interesting, but I think Fermaid O typically causes less temperature increase than the Fermaid K. And in fact I switched to exclusively Fermaid O for that reason. Personally, I think you are fine. I don't think there is any particular reason to try and cool it down. I would follow the brix closely as you are closer to the finish than you think.

 

[Jay A]

Yes, I'm sure you'll be fine. Fermentation may finish sooner than later.

 

[Paulie vino]

Evening update...

The must temp is down to 73, guess the ice helped. I also have the garage door cracked, temps will be dropping into the 50s tonight so some cold air will help cool it, I'll close it before bed though. The SG is 1.014, brix 3.5. At this rate I will most likely be pressing tomorrow (brix dropped 12 points from last night around the same time). I'd prefer to press tomorrow vs Monday after work.

This is a loaded question but when is the earliest I can press? I know everyone is different but I'd like to press tomorrow. 1.010? 1.005? This has been a quick ferment so far. If I press tomorrow, the must would have been on the skins for just barely 4 days.

EDIT: I have a lid for the pot I am fermenting in. Would it be a good idea to use it to cover the must sometime soon since it's nearing the end of fermentation? It's not entirely air tight but it will keep most of the air out and the CO2 in. Just brainstorming...

 

[Jay A]

You can press tomorrow, fermentation will continue post press. You may sacrifice some color, it looks a little light from pics. may wind up on the fruitier side with early pressing.

Have you added any MLB? if so, consider leaving on skins, continue punch downs. Tightly cover with plastic when brix falls to zero. CO2 from MLF should keep you safe till next weekend or an early afternoon pressing if you can steal some time. resist urge to uncover.

 

[David Violante]

This looks great! Nice job~

One thing else you can do next time is step feed a little bit more. Instead of twice, go to four times if you have the ability to do that. Sometimes the calendar gets in the way. Divide the total amount to add by four, start the day after pitching the yeast / when fermentation starts, get them in before 1/3 sugar drop. Sometimes this is each day, sometimes it’s a little further apart. Breaking it up will help with temperature spikes, which are from yeast metabolic processes. You could also do three if that’s what you have time for. It just means a little more time with the must.

 

[Paulie vino]

Looks like I'll be pressing today. Brix is 0.5, SG 1.002. Gonna give it a few more hours then press this afternoon. I could probably leave it until tomorrow but the timing works better today. The idea of pitching the MLF bacteria and doing an EM sounds interesting but I don't want to mess with that just yet...maybe when I have more experience. Next year I'll probably stagger the fermaid o additions into multiple small doses as recommend.

 

[Jay A]

Looks like I'll be pressing today. Brix is 0.5, SG 1.002. Gonna give it a few more hours then press this afternoon. I could probably leave it until tomorrow but the timing works better today. The idea of pitching the MLF bacteria and doing an EM sounds interesting but I don't want to mess with that just yet...maybe when I have more experience. Next year I'll probably stagger the fermaid o additions into multiple small doses as recommend.

Good Luck with press. After opening second pic, color looks good compared to first.
Every year I toy with the idea of putting aside 10-15 gals in a brute pail for an EM.
Never enough time!!

 

[Paulie vino]

Pressed the wine this afternoon. The wine I made last year did not taste good coming out of the press. The wine this year tasted good out of the press so I'm hopeful. It was 0 brix (0.998) at the time of pressing. I managed to get just over 8 gallons (6 of free run).

The plan now is to rack on Wednesday afternoon after work. Then add MLF bacteria and an oak winestix to the big carboy. Not sure if I want to use American or French. I have both and am open to suggestions. It's 2/3 barbera, 1/3 zinfandel so not sure what would be more complimentary. I know a lot of it is individual preference.

Also, I realized as I was cleaning the cake some of the berries were not even crushed. I cranked the press until I couldn't really turn the handle anymore without significant force, fluffed up the cake and pressed again the same way. I'm surprised the berries were not crushed after that. Guess I can go harder next year and not worry about cracking seeds and excess tannin since the pressure isn't even breaking berries within the pomace.

Thanks again for all the help. Very happy with this wine so far.

 

[David Engel]

Paulie, Where did you get that press?

 

[Paulie vino]

The press was a gift from a friend of someone I knew from work. Based on my research it's from the 1920s or 1930. It was made by Giunta bros from Philadelphia. I posted about it in this thread a few years ago Replacement press plates

I replaced some of the wood basket and pressing plates, cleaned up some of the rust and now im happy to carry on the tradition of using it.

 

[Paulie vino]

I racked off the gross lee's last night brought the carboys into the basement and add ML bacteria CH16 this morning. I yielded around 7.5 gallons of wine from 3 lugs. The final SG was 0.994, which would make the wine about 13.5%. I am happy with that number.

I was planning on adding oak but after tasting the wine I like the fruit forward taste and am contemplating not adding it. I don't know a lot about Barbera but from what I read it seems like oak is not usually used (outside of again in neutral oak barrels or casks). I read oak use is more common in California. Does anyone have any experience or advice regarding oak for this wine, it's 2/3 Barbera 1/3 zinfandel. I have both french and American oak available.

Also was thinking about MLF. Is it safe to assume more Barbera wines undergo MLF?

 

[Paulie vino]

Update. It's been over 3 weeks since I added MLF bacteria, I decided to rack and sulfite ( I have no way of testing MLF completion). I calibrated my pH meter and tested the pH during racking, which was 3.35. this is surprising since the prefermentation pH was 3.56. If anything I assumed it would be the same or higher, not lower. Some possible reasons are: improper sample preparation during pre ferment testing, the pH of the must changed due to release of juice during fermentation, improper calibration a few weeks ago or now. Any other ideas? I have some left overs in wine bottles settling in the fridge, I'll check the pH of those again in a few days out of curiosity. The wine is 2/3s Barbera which is a high acid wine so I'm not surprised by a low pH of 3.35 but it's strange that it started at 3.56.

I added French oak wine stix 3 weeks ago as well, plan to monitor every few weeks for taste chnaged. The wine still tastes good, very fruit forward. Curious to see how it evolves.

 

[Paulie vino]

I tasted the wine today and it seemed a little oxidized. I added 1.64g of kmeta on 11/5, so it should have enough kmeta, I also pulled a sample when I racked on 11/5 which tasted good. After I tasted it today I changed out the bung from an old rubber one to a newer silicone bung with the same s style airlock. The airlock always had water in it. Headspace was never more than 1-2 inches in a 5 gallon carboy. I sprinkled a little kmeta on top just for some insurance and put the bung back on. Not sure what the problem is. This wine tasted really good until now. Any ideas?

 

[Gilmango]

I tasted the wine today and it seemed a little oxidized. I added 1.64g of kmeta on 11/5, so it should have enough kmeta, I also pulled a sample when I racked on 11/5 which tasted good. After I tasted it today I changed out the bung from an old rubber one to a newer silicone bung with the same s style airlock. The airlock always had water in it. Headspace was never more than 1-2 inches in a 5 gallon carboy. I sprinkled a little kmeta on top just for some insurance and put the bung back on. Not sure what the problem is. This wine tasted really good until now. Any ideas?

I doubt that your last racking of the wine on November 5 where you also added 1.64 grams of sulfites was enough to oxidize a wine which was previously fine. So my guesses would be that you are maybe tasting (1) some of the sulfites you added? or (2) some of oak stick which has been in for 6 weeks by now? or (3) just an awkward (but likely temporary) phase in the wine's evolution after the last racking 3 weeks ago? or (4) some combination of the first 3.

I'd pull the oak sooner than later (unless you are certain (2) was not a factor in what you were tasting) and then let it sit for a few months without sampling, racking, sulfiting, etc. Just let it be and I am very hopeful it will taste better the next time you try it.

EDIT - a (5th) possible issue occurs to me, you only gave the wine 3 weeks to go through MLF, after racking off the gross lees (which helps MLF if I recall correctly), in a colder environment (no co-inoculation and warmer temps which help MLF), and no confirmation of completion of MLF. Instead you just added a bunch of Sulfites to stop the MLF. So I'm thinking possibly MLF was not complete in 3 weeks, and MLB+free Sulfites are having a little fight. Probably not ever as bad as the potassium sorbate versus MLB "geranium smell" I've read about, but possibly another reason things don't taste as great right now, but still probably going to pass just fine over time (even if you never converted all Malic acid to Lactic acid).