WineXpert WineXpert Eclipse with skins - big Lees?

[britwinemaker]

Hi everyone

This is my first post and having read a number of threads on various WE Eclipse with skins kits, I thought I'd post here and ask for some advice.

I brewed the Stags Leap Merlot last year and lost around 5 bottles due to the huge amount of Lees produced in Primary fermentation. I've now taken delivery of the Eclipse Zinfandel, Cabernet Sauvignon, Piedmont Nebbiolo kits and I'd really like to avoid the same level of wastage!

So, does anyone have some solid tips / experience on how to get the most wine out of these kits during fermentation? If this has been raised before then I do apologise and I am more than happy to be directed to a relevant thread

Many thanks

 

[sour_grapes]

Five bottles is a lot of loss! First a question: Did you put the skins into the muslin bag? I think it is easier to separate the liquid from the skins if you go ahead and put it in the bag.

My best advice is to pour the yeasty slurry of lees into smaller containers, and put them in the fridge for a day or 3. I use jars meant for canning (we call them Mason jars or Ball jars where I live). The wine will separate, and it is relatively easy to pour off and recover the more clear wine.

And welcome to WMT!

 

[bkisel]

First... Welcome to the forum!

I agree 100% with sour-grapes - "Five bottles is a lot of loss!". I've never come close to that amount of loss. The tips given by sour-grapes would be a good place to start.

 

[AZMDTed]

5 bottles is a lot. I've had close to that before but under a combination of circumstances. Here are my recommendations:

1. Measure out the 23 liters and mark it on the bucket, don't take any markings on the bucket at face value.

2. Make sure that you are filling to 23 liters BEFORE you add the grape pack. The grape pack should take you to about 25 liters.

3. It's okay to rack some of the cloudy wine into the secondary container. Keep in mind that kits don't really have gross lees that are bad for the wine. Gross lees are leaves and stems and such from grapes. Our lees are fine lees and won't do harm in the two weeks or so during fermentation. This is where I was leaving a lot of wine behind when I first started.

4. Measure the volume of the carboy. I have some that are over six gallons and some under. It's a pain. If you move to secondary in a 'Small' 6 gallon carboy and then to a 'Big' six gallon carboy it will look like you lost a lot, and require a lot of topping up.

Good luck.

 

[Boatboy24]

In my experience, the Eclipse kits with skins have a ton of lees. The only drawback I've seen, by the way. And the lees from primary don't seem to want to settle. I take what remains from primary (1/2 - 2/3 gallon) and put it in a gallon jug for a few days (or a week, or two). If I'm lucky, I get half of that back out in wine and I top up with finished wine to make the difference.

 

[Putterrr]

i'm with boatboy24. great tasting kits (with at least 18 months aging) but a real pain to make. I have been pouring the gross lees into a separate muslin bag and gently squeezing most of the juice out. the rest goes into a large container to settle. for my next kit, i'm going to try a different bentonite that is suppose to compact things more.

cheers

 

[jumby]

Another tip I picked up here was to add your oak powder/dust to the skins bag.

 

[britwinemaker]

Many thanks for the warm welcome and the sharing of experiences.

I always pay particular attention to the instructions and so made the kit to 23 liters and then added the skins in the mesh bag. I also tried siphoning some of the lees (which looked like something out of a lipo-suction machine!) in to the carboy but this then meant on second racking I lost another chunk of wine. Thinking back, the lees were very similar in size and substance to those I encountered when making raspberry wine from fresh fruit last summer.

It's the only WineXpert kit where I haven't produced 29 bottles at the end - and I've made around 30 of their kits in total! I'll try your suggestions this time around concerning racking the lees in to a container and chill to see what clears, but if it's sat there for a week won't that juice become tainted?

 

[sour_grapes]

but if it's sat there for a week won't that juice become tainted?

I think the refrigeration slows down whatever biological and/or chemical reactions enough that it will be okay.

 

[Johnd]

As most have mentioned above, the WE kits with skins do leave more lees than lots of others, but 5 bottles down is a lot of loss.

I handle kits with skins a little differently, I put the skins and oak dust in loose during bucket fermentation time. When it's time to go to glass, I pour the must through the mesh bag into another bucket and give the bag a gentle squeeze. It then goes into my fruit press where I extract the vast majority of the juice and add it back to the bucket. After the bucket settles for 15 or 20 minutes, I hook a tube to the bucket spout and transfer all of the liquid to the carboy, only leaving behind the thickest stuff that has settled at the bottom of the bucket. Almost no juice left behind.

At the first racking from carboy to carboy, I'm not concerned about getting a little lees in the transfer, I tilt the carboy at the end and get all of the juice. Any fine lees in the transfer settle back out quickly and will be easily left behind in the next racking.

typically, you're going to have to top up if you make your kits to the right volume, but a couple of bottles should do the trick most of the time.

 

[wineh]

I'll try your suggestions this time around concerning racking the lees in to a container and chill to see what clears, but if it's sat there for a week won't that juice become tainted?

When you rack from the primary fermenter, your wine is still fermenting and giving off CO2. If you can put an airlock on your small container, it will offgass, and get rid of any air that was in there. I also use a mason jar, but don't fully tighten the sealer lid, so gas can escape. (you don't want pressure to build up in your container anyway). I couldn't find a bomb.

 

[Kiwisholland]

Would changing the yeast help?

 

[britwinemaker]

Many thanks for all the advice guys. I've made the Eclipse Zinfandel and the Nebbiolo with much less wastage... just the Cab Sauv, another SL Merlot and the LE15 Fouritude to go. But I'm also lined up to make the World Vineyard Australian Grenache / Shiraz and the Washington Merlot kits (both with skins at 12 liters per kit) just to see how they compare.