Started ML fermentation by accident

[Phytotech]

Hi new to the forum and relatively new to wine making. I started some wine from fresh juice last year from a local company that imports juice. I did a batch of Agentine Malbec, a California Shiraz/merlot and a California Cab.

The Cab turned out really good, but light. The Malbec and California blend are both very flavorful but I started getting some tiny bubbles appearing in the wine after abour 3-4 months in the bottles. They are dry before bottling and then bulk aged/cleared for around 3 months.

I had figured that the bubbles were just from not completely de-gassing, and have just been letting them decant for about 45min to an hour before drinking, that seems to get rid of the bubbliness. But from reading this forum it seems I may have some MLF in the bottles. I have only around 12-15 bottles of each left so I am not worried about them.

The problem being is I used some of the California blend to top up a kit wine I was making (Kenridge Founders Series Shiraz). Now I seem to have introduced the MLF into the carboy (I can see the tiny bubbles), and the wine (SG .992) is ready to be racked out of the secondary and stabilized.

I am not sure how to proceed now. Whether I should just let the MLF continue without distrubing the wine, whether I should stabilize and add extra K-meta and sorbate, or whether I should add more ML bacteria and get the process really going.

Thanks in advance

 

[jimmyjames23]

That's fine. The bacteria will survive a racking.

Simply rack and add the rest of the ML and monitor (to taste) until you get the desired result.

 

[jimmyjames23]

But before you add anything. Taste your wine. Does it have a slight acid taste of Green Apple/Grapefruit?

 

[robie]

You should never allow an MLF to start on a kit wine. If it has started, you must stop it. If you add a dose of Kmeta to bring the PPM up to about 50PPM (or higher if your PH is also very high), it will stop the MLF. The real MLF stopper is lysozyme, but if you don't have any you can get right away, just go the Kmeta route.

I just re-read your post and saw you haven't stabilized, yet. Just stabilize and it should stop the MLF.

One more thing, if this kit wine is going to be left dry, don't add the sorbate, since you don't know how long MLF might have been underway in the kit wine. It is the sorbate that has a bad reaction with the MLB.

 

[Deezil]

I was gonna say it, but it appears robie beat me to it - if its really going through MLF, dont sorbate it; Robie is also right about kit wines not going through MLF, it needs to stop.. Kits are pre-adjusted and MLF can throw them out of balance

+1 to bump the K-meta up

 

[Phytotech]

I was gonna say it, but it appears robie beat me to it - if its really going through MLF, dont sorbate it; Robie is also right about kit wines not going through MLF, it needs to stop.. Kits are pre-adjusted and MLF can throw them out of balance

+1 to bump the K-meta up

I don't think the MLF started that long ago, I topped up 8 days ago...

I added 4g of K-meta supplied with the kit, I will test for SO2 and pH.

Won't the MLF just start again after I bottle and age, as the free sulfite is broken down?

What is the harm of sorbate to MLF? I didn't catch that part. I've never used sorbate except in a white kit I made.

Thanks for the advice

 

[Phytotech]

also do most wine supply stores carry lysozyme? looked at a couple online catalogs and haven't seen it.

 

[Deezil]

The MLB will feed on the sorbate and create Geranium-type flavors

I picked up Lysozyme from MoreWine

 

[robie]

also do most wine supply stores carry lysozyme? looked at a couple online catalogs and haven't seen it.

Then just go with a nice dos of Kmeta. It should be fine.

 

[jimmyjames23]

Did you taste it or test it to see if it tastes/contains malic acid?
In other words...what don't you like about the wine the way it is?

 

[Phytotech]

Did you taste it or test it to see if it tastes/contains malic acid?
In other words...what don't you like about the wine the way it is?

The wine tastes fine, not really sure what Malic acid tastes like. But the wine is pretty good atm.

I was more worried about what would happen

 

[Phytotech]

Then just go with a nice dos of Kmeta. It should be fine.

I'll see what I can find in terms of lysozyme, otherwise just kmeta it up I guess

 

[Phytotech]

Well there is no lysozyme to be found locally. How long with the K-meta last if there are some bacteria floating around? Should I give it a big dose prior to bottling?

 

[jimmyjames23]

You really should get a Chromagraph done before you jump to any MLF conclusions. It will visually tell you what's going on with your wine.

 

[robie]

A chromatography test would sure tell you more about what might be going on. At least it will tell you if you have malic acid present.

As far as a dose of Kmeta, Just bring the free SO2 level up to where it should be for your wine and its pH. That should stop the MLF. As long as the level is kept where it should be, MLF will not start again. I wouldn't bottle right away. Give it another month or so, just to make sure all is well.

For taste of malic acid, compare the taste of a mature Granny Smith green apple to a mature red apple. That higher acidic-tasting difference is for the most part malic acid.

 

[Phytotech]

I'll look to get a chromatography set up, the problem is that this is a kit wine. Which in theory should be pH balanced already and undergoing MLF will ruin it (at least from what I learned on the internets). The guys I talked to at my LHBS was less than useless, never heard of MLF or lysozyme.

The problem arose because of the raw juice wine I made last fall (vin bon, blend), started MLF (or at least appears to have) in the bottle when the sulfites ran low. I was again told by the distributor that it was sulfited, yeasted and all I needed to do was oak, rack a few times and bottle. Didn't realize there was a problem till after bottling and using some of the wine to top up.

The wine doesn't taste like apples, it is a rather heavish red though.

 

[robie]

I'll look to get a chromatography set up, the problem is that this is a kit wine.

The wine doesn't taste like apples, it is a rather heavish red though.

I have always been led to believe that kits are pre-dosed with enough lysozyme to prevent an MLF from happening, at least spontaneously.

When I wrote to compare green apples to reds, I wasn't referring to the apple taste, just the idea that the green apple is much more acidic than the red. That difference is malic acid. Sort of as though if one could do an MLF on a green apple, it would taste more like a red apple.

 

[jimmyjames23]

Vin Bon? As in Vin Bon Ontario?

 

[Phytotech]

Yeah I have a distributor in my area who brings in pails every fall, some of the wine turned out great, so not so great. I have been having trouble getting info on the pails though, including what yeast they use and how much sulfites they are adding.

 

[jimmyjames23]

Yeast is almost always EC 1118. Usually not enough of it either. SO2 usually good. Best to measure the PH and Adjust when you get it.
The buckets always taste better after MLF.
9 out of 10 times I don't add extra k meta until botteling and I usually always end up adding acid blend and tannin pre ferment.