Other Racking from secondary before Clearing

[MrsJones]

My Riesling kit says that once fermentation stops I should stir to degass then add clearing agents and stir some more before topping up.

There's quite a bit of sediment already so I'm wondering if I should splash rack to help degass and take it off the lees before adding clearing agents.

Here's the vino

 

[francois_du_nord]

Have you checked your gravity to confirm competition of fermentation? The big thing is you don't want to add your clarifiers until fermentation has completed, otherwise the fermentation continues to agitate the

Although I've never done that, I don't think it will lead to problems. Yeast can break down over time, and create some off flavors, but this early in the process I wouldn't worry about it. Some folks use 'Sur la lees' (On the lees) as a process for white wine, where they stir the yeast back into suspension daily for a couple of months to add some flavor components, I'm going to do that with my current Pinot Grigio.

I think you can go for it and add your clarifying agents after you are in the next carboy.

Best, Fran

 

[richmke]

WE normal instructions are this:

Mix the kit. Let it ferment 5-7 days.
If SG is 1.010 or lower, rack. If not, wait another day, and recheck.

Wait another 5-10 days.
If SG is 0.996 or lower: DO NOT RACK. Degass. Stabilize (K-Meta, sorbate) and mix well. Then add clarifying agents (chitosan or isinglass) and mix well some more. You do not rack because the remaining solids are need to help attract smaller solids to precipitate out.
Wait some more.

 

[MrsJones]

Thank you, thank you!!

This forum really is the best!

 

[bkisel]

I too would also follow the WE directions even though all the RJS kits and the fruit recipes I've done have me racking from "secondary" into a carboy for stabilization, degassing and clearing. Good to know that WE instructions are different should I at some point in time do a WE kit.

 

[MrsJones]

Thanks for weighing in BK!

 

[Elmer]

In all my WE kits, I leave the goopy stuff at the bottom, stir it up.
dump each packet provided and stir again & again & again & again!!!!
Come back in a week or 2 1/2 and it is has settled quite well.
I then rack, bulk age, bottle, drink and then realize I should have made another batch somewhere during that process!

 

[sour_grapes]

WE normal instructions are this:

Mix the kit. Let it ferment 5-7 days.
If SG is 1.010 or lower, rack. If not, wait another day, and recheck.

Wait another 5-10 days.
If SG is 0.996 or lower: DO NOT RACK. Degass. Stabilize (K-Meta, sorbate) and mix well. Then add clarifying agents (chitosan or isinglass) and mix well some more. You do not rack because the remaining solids are need to help attract smaller solids to precipitate out.
Wait some more.

Well, I have been a rebel. I decided that "I know better than them there so-called experts at WinExpert," and so I rack off the secondary lees before degassing and fining. I have done this with 3 WE kits so far, and they seemed to clear pretty well. I am now doing my first white (a Viognier), so that may be a more stringent test. I'll let you know!

 

[LoneStarLori]

I have done almost exclusively WE kits, both red and white. This year I did 6 whites and on each of them I racked and degassed before adding the fining agents. I have never had a clearing problem...until the last one. Sonoma Dry Creek Chardonnay. Although I doused it with some Super Kleer and it is now sparkling, I had a 750ml bottle left over that wouldn't fit in a 5 gal carboy. Therefore it did not get the Super Kleer. They both were clear by the end of 7 days. I think I just should have waited longer before panicking and adding super Kleer.

 

[francois_du_nord]

I'm thinking that the bentonite in the WE kits is part of the clearing process, and that is why they want to you to clarify in the secondary rather than racking again.

It seems that the sediment after clearing is more stable than floculated yeast in the beer I've made over the years.

 

[bkisel]

I'm thinking that the bentonite in the WE kits is part of the clearing process, and that is why they want to you to clarify in the secondary rather than racking again.

It seems that the sediment after clearing is more stable than floculated yeast in the beer I've made over the years.

I'd really like an explanation from WE. Instructions clearly say what to do...

NOTE: Do NOT rack the wine before stabilising and
fining. Winexpert kits require that you stir the sediment
back into suspension. Racking the wine off the sediment
prior to fining may permanently prevent clearing. Please
be sure to stir all of the sediment up from the bottom.

...but why is this so with WE kits and not others?

BTW, all the dozen or so RJS kits I've done have used bentonite in the primary yet have you rack off the sediment before stab., degas & clarify.

 

[richmke]

...but why is this so with WE kits and not others?

My guess is this:

The 1st rack takes care of the big stuff. This also removes a lot of the Bentonite.

Then, you wait. This creates more stuff.

If you rack again, before adding chitosan/isinglass, you have really small stuff left.

By leaving in the bigger stuff (not racking a 2nd time), it gives the chitosan/isinglass something easy to attach to. The small stuff can then get stuck to the bigger stuff.

I once made the mistake of racking a 2nd time before adding clarifying stuff. It had no problem clearing.

Then again, I have stopped using the clarifying stuff on long aged wines, and let time do the work. I will still use it on IM and other quick drinking kits.

 

[sour_grapes]

Well, I have been a rebel. I decided that "I know better than them there so-called experts at WinExpert," and so I rack off the secondary lees before degassing and fining. I have done this with 3 WE kits so far, and they seemed to clear pretty well. I am now doing my first white (a Viognier), so that may be a more stringent test. I'll let you know!

Well, I did that racking (in violation of the instructions) 3.5 days ago. I then added the isinglass. It is now really clear! "Read a newspaper through it" kind of clear.

 

[Putterrr]

I make allot of 6-8 week kits, both RJS and WE. I always rack after fermentation in the secondary is completed and then degas/add chems. Since WE changed the instructions 2-3 years ago, I have never had a wine that did not clear. Of course by not following the instructions, I void the warranty but I'm OK with that. Other tweaks I have added have already done that by the time I get to the clearing stage. We all have our way of doing things, but one can never go wrong by following the instructions.
cheers