Cellar Craft How Early Do You Notice 'Kit Taste' Aroma

[Huey]

I've got a number of kits in the pipeline now, CC Syrah, CC Cab-Merlot, CC Rosso Fortismo, and CC Riesling, and a bottle RJS Sauvignon Blanc and WE Luna Red.

All the reds have all had a very similar distinct sweet smell during fermenation and during rackings. The Luna Red has been bottled a little over a year and it now seems to be fading away.

How soon do others notice the 'kit taste' aroma? Is this what I'm smelling? Do you notice it during fermentation? I'm noticing it after fermentation gets rolling along after a couple days.

I'd started this thread regarding the aroma earlier: http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum...during-primary-fermentation-42384/#post473060

I also emailed with finevinewines (where I've purchased most of the kits) abou the aroma and they said they'd never heard of anything quite like it. However after reading more about 'kit taste' I'm thinking that's just what I'm experiencing on my reds. The whites haven't had this issue. The SB had a bit of the aroma while fermenting but it was gone when it was bottled and tried after six months.

For my latest batch (the Rosso Fortismo) I used a different brand new fermenter and the results were the same.

 

[Huey]

Additionaly - If anyone with a little experience is around the Seattle area and feels like lending there nose and sharing a bottle I would really appreciate it!

 

[cocroach]

Huey, I've noticed the "kit-taste", or "KT", as it's also known as, starting to come though during secondary fermentation. I have made a number of red wine kits now, most of which were high-end and have noticed them on all (including the Rosso Fortissimo), even after more than one year in the bottle. Currently, I have RJS WW Amarone in secondary and the RJS Nero D'Avola in clearing and disappointingly, these smell like it too.

I'm really enjoying wine-making and don't want to give up on kits yet. I've been trying different things in the hopes of getting rid, or at least minimizing it (different yeast / oak) but nothing has changed this, and from seeking out feedback on the subject from others on here, it doesn't sound like these things will get rid of it, although I've heard barrel bulk aging helps.

The only ones that I can say that I have not noticed kit-taste on is on the Cellar Craft Washington Riesling Ice Wine, Chocolate Hazelnut Port and RJS Specialty port kits, even right at bottling time. I'm not if this has to with the high sugar content of these wines, or some other reason.

The Mosti Mondiale Barolo is the one red wine that I noticed it the least on (only 4 months in the bottle so far on this one). I can actually detect other very distinct aromas and flavour coming through, as opposed to the over-powering kit-taste and am thoroughly enjoying this one the most because of it (It is awesome!). I've also read that others have noticed less of a kit-taste on the Mosti Mondiale, so I'm inclined to start trying more of these, especially since my Barolo seems to have turned out.

I read somewhere that the kit taste comes from the process manufacturers use to make the must – something to do with sugar. Apparently kit-taste is supposed to go away on the high-end kits after +2 years. I have yet to reach that point with my red wine kits, but hopefully that will be the case, since there are a lot more kits I'd like to try.

 

[Huey]

Thanks for the reply cocroach,

It sounds like you are in the same boat as me. I want to keep building my cellar but if all the reds are going to have the same KT aroma I'll be switching to white kits and seeing if I can source some fresh juice. Although I hear about people saying going with fresh grapes is cheaper the option I'm finding that they are more than the premium kits.

Right now I'm thinking I'll look around for fresh juice sources for a batch or two and see how they compare with the kits after some time.

 

[cocroach]

I've also heard the same about fresh grapes. I'd like to try that as well,however; I'm not in an area that I can source it easily. Hopefully you find some success if you try it.

 

[vabeachbear]

I can say that this was something I was worried about a year or so ago. I can say that after two years, that KT you describe is pretty much gone. I haven't made a CC kit yet, mostly RJS at this point.

I have a local store that makes wine from kits and they sell CC wine. I think they have more of a KT to them then the RJS does, but both have it.

Patience, its tough, but worth it.

 

[berrycrush]

Mine kit wine smells like cream soda when uncorked. It was made out of WE Chilean CabSav and has been bottled for a year.

 

[Elmer]

I would recommend getting a small 5 gallon barrel.

Aging wine in your barrel and the kit taste seems to dissipate over time.

 

[cocroach]

I can say that this was something I was worried about a year or so ago. I can say that after two years, that KT you describe is pretty much gone. I haven't made a CC kit yet, mostly RJS at this point.

I have a local store that makes wine from kits and they sell CC wine. I think they have more of a KT to them then the RJS does, but both have it.

Patience, its tough, but worth it.

Vabeachbear, good to know, I have four kits on deck that are all RJS.

 

[bkisel]

Sorry I read this post because now I'll be looking/sniffing for this KT aroma. Also clueless as to KT. Unless it is a remake my kit wines taste different one from the other.

Is KT something very subtle and would explain why I've not noticed this particular taste?

Thanx...

 

[GaDawg]

I have never tasted KT in any kits and that is all I make. It seems some of us do and some don't.


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[ou8amaus]

I find it interesting how kt can be detected so easily by some and others sense nothing. Considering this hobby is so much about smell, and by association taste, how is it that there has been no quantifiable explanation? I smell conspiracy on the part of the wine kit makers!

 

[roger80465]

I find it interesting how kt can be detected so easily by some and others sense nothing. Considering this hobby is so much about smell, and by association taste, how is it that there has been no quantifiable explanation? I smell conspiracy on the part of the wine kit makers!

Some so-called experts also taste tobacco, red clay and tar in a wine. I don't taste those and don't want to.

All a matter of subjectivity.

 

[SouthernChemist]

I find it interesting how kt can be detected so easily by some and others sense nothing. Considering this hobby is so much about smell, and by association taste, how is it that there has been no quantifiable explanation? I smell conspiracy on the part of the wine kit makers!

It's quite possible that there is not one thing responsible for 'kit taste'. Some people are more sensitive to certain tastes/smells than others. Some people complaining about kit taste may instead really be complaining about a young wine. There could be an unconscious distinction between a kit wine and a wine made from fresh grapes/commercial wine, and it will always taste different to them whether they realize it or not. Expectations can significantly bias how we perceive things. People can make the same kit wine, and one person will say it tastes great after a few months while someone else will declare it needs 18 months.

I've never really experienced kit taste myself, and I've made kits that people in the past complained about having too much a 'kit taste'.

 

[ColemanM]

I've actually come to expect kit taste in my kit wines. It may be due to the concentration of the juice, but there is definitely a sweet almost candy raspberry taste to them all. Until the other day. For the first time ever, when I tasted a 4+ month old cellar craft GSM I only had the taste of a young wine. Up until this point I have been making Winexpert kits. And this was a 12 liter kit, so the process of concentrating the grape juice would have been greater. Not sure if it was the low expectations or the different company but it was nice not to taste the candy like flavor of a kit. What does everyone else seem to think kit taste tastes like? That would be interesting to know.


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[sour_grapes]

I formed the opinion early on that KT was just the taste of a young wine. Now I am not sure.

I have tasted young wine at various Neuer wein festivals, Beaujolais noveau, young apfelwein, and young grape wines at heurigers. They all have a certain similarity, and my my young kit wines reminded me of those. Therefore, I concluded that KT was just the taste of young wine, which most people don't get to taste much of before they took up this hobby.

However, my oldest wines are now approaching one year old. Obviously, this is still pretty young. However, they no longer remind me of the young wines referenced above. Rather, they all have a certain, ummmm, tang to them. It is a somewhat (non-specific) chemical taste. Certainly not "candy-like" as the previous poster has experienced, but rather kinda medicinal.

 

[user 31015]

I haven't made or tasted a kit wine but it wouldn't surprise me if there's some taste from the... pasteurization or homogenization (I don't know what is used?) - eg, I can taste the difference between UHT milk and fresh milk. Is that what people are picking up on?

 

[Gwand]

I haven't made or tasted a kit wine but it wouldn't surprise me if there's some taste from the... pasteurization or homogenization (I don't know what is used?) - eg, I can taste the difference between UHT milk and fresh milk. Is that what people are picking up on?

I think you have hit upon one of the reasons. All of my kit wines are less than a year old. Some have a KT problem at this point. I find the KT aroma more annoying than the KT taste. I do not use sorbate so that is not the cause. I am also aging some wine made from frozen must. The must was never pasteurized. This wine has no KT aroma or taste.

 

[Huey]

It's definitely an aroma for the most part. It could just be the taste of a young wine. I'll keep my eye out and ask around here to see if there is a winery or wine maker that can give me a sample of young wine.


Not many people have answered the title question (for those that notice 'kit taste'):
How early do you notice it?

Is this something you notice during fermentation?

 

[tonyt]

I have to chime in and agree with the aroma thing. Almost every kit I have done has a metallicie smell for the first year or so. Barrel aging knocks it out completely for me. As to taste the KT is only noticeable to me for the first several months then I can't detect it at all. IMHO the new WE Eclipse kits don't seem to have any off smell or taste even young.