Help!

[cindilu8]

Hi there I am new to wine making and making a mess! In september we crushed 100#'s of foch and 70 # of Lucy. I put the juice, minus the skins, in the sanitized bucket with the air lock. I didn't get camden tables instead I got potassium metabisulfite. The lady at the store wasn't sure of the amount and I used way to much. I put 5 tsp in one and 6 tsp in the other. I have yeasted 3 times now and not sure what to do. The color is clear and pink, very pretty and it tastes amazing, like grape juice. the hydrometer reading right now is right around 1.09. I really don't know what to do now or next...any thoughts??? I realize now I should have left the skins...Thanks for any suggestions

 

[dralarms]

Baking soda, 1tbl per 5 gallons (introduces o2 into the must) I've used it a number of times on stubborn musts.

Don't, repeat, don't use it on completed wine

 

[cindilu8]

Ok, so did i make a huge mistake by not leaving any skins or seeds? After the baking soda how long do I wait?

 

[dralarms]

Be ready for a volcano. But most of the time within 24hrs its rolling good.

 

[dralarms]

I always ferment on the skins, gives you more color and beneficial stuff, but if it taste good then it should be good.

 

[cindilu8]

Ok so this is really helpful and hopeful! After the 24 hours can i rack it into the carboy and all is well?

 

[dralarms]

If it's working. I'd leave it in the bucket for a couple days and keep it stirred. It could use all tye O2 it can get right now.

 

[cindilu8]

Thank you so very much, I will let you know how it goes!

 

[dralarms]

You're welcome, and welcome to WMT.

 

[cindilu8]

Thank you, I am certain I will need lots of help, so here for the long term...

 

[cindilu8]

Ok now I feel concerned again... I put the baking soda in and stirred. NO volcano! What might that mean??? Thank you..

 

[dralarms]

What does it smell like?

 

[cintipam]

Welcome cindilu8

Could you give more info please? I agree you used too much Kmeta (potassium metabisulphite) but my mind cannot covert pounds of starting grapes into juice only totals. The appropriate usage amount is 1/4 tsp per 5 or 6 gallons. You say you used 5 tsps in one, and 6 tsps in the other. Unless you have more than 100 gallons of each juice you did really over do it. That kmeta is stopping the yeast in its tracks. Lots of stirring will help release some of the excess, but I'm betting it will still take some time to get the levels low enough for the yeast to start working. I have no idea how long it is safe to keep your juice sitting and waiting, but all that kmeta is protecting it for now.

my only ideas are wait a week, then stir it like crazy to release more kmeta. Make a large yeast starter gradually incorporating more and more of the juice into it over time. Take your cues from the starter. If it starts out nice and foamy then slows down when you add more must, and later seems to roll over and die when you add more I'm betting there is still too much kmeta in the juice for the yeast to survive.

All the above is my opinion, and hopefully other folk will agree or disagree and give their reasons.

Good luck. I'm sure you will eventually get it going, but it will prob take a while.

Pam in cinti

 

[cintipam]

Cindy, if you still have the skins and they are in good shape you could still throw them back in. You have more than enough Kmeta to sanitize them, and the skins will add flavor and color to the wine later. Folks use dried skins all the time, so unless you left them out to mold or threw them on the compost patch they should still work.

Pam in cinti

 

[dralarms]

That's a good idea Pam.

 

[cindilu8]

Ok first about the skins, I did have them in a bucket and thought of putting some in the juice. the top had mold but not the bottom. But I though when I tasted it, it may have had a hint of vinegar taste so I left them outside (very cold out here!) On the amounts of Kmeta I used one tsp for each gallon of juice. One bucket is 5 gallons and the other is 6 gallons. I have used champaine yeast three times now, and today did the baking soda treatment. I don't know how to make a larger yeast starter? I so appreciate all this help!!! Should I go out and chance it and get some of those skins? and could you please explain the yeast starter process? Oh it smells like sweet juice...

 

[GreginND]

Why in the world would you add baking soda to your must? That would reduce acid, and add sodium to your wine as well. I simply don't understand that advice.

You need to get rid of the SO2. You should splash your juice by pouring it back and forth between a couple of buckets to aerate it. That should help reduce the SO2. You added way too much sulfites.

I would not add the skins at this point. They are probably on the rotten side.

 

[cintipam]

Hi cindilu8

if you see mold and smell vinegar, let them be. Possibly folks with more experience might say otherwise, but I'd just say saving the skins is one of the many lessons you'll learn from this batch. And you do have way too much kmeta. very sorry the store couldn't tell you, and really shocked there were no instructions, but it should be 1/4 tsp for every 5-6 gallons. Meaning if you have a 5 gallon carboy and a 6 gallon carboy each carboy should have just 1/4 tsp added. So it will take time for the excess to get bound up or what ever happens to it when you stir it hard.

Like before, I"m guessing a week before you even try a starter. There is a whole forum with instructions on how to do things (Tutorials and Reference Guides), and I got this yeast starter info from there.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f71/how-yeast-starter-19510/

Be sure you go down and read the section where they tell you to add more from juice every couple hours or however long, because without an expensive tool to read your SO2 level attempting to get a starter to live when you add must (juice) in stages is the only way you can really know if the SO2 level has gotten low enough that the yeast has a chance to live.

Also I don't know which yeast you are using but due to your situation I'd recommend Lalvin EC-1118. It wouldn't be my first choice but it is the hardiest yeast around, and right now that is most important.

BTW if you don't have yeast nutrient or anything else needed you actually have time to order some if your local shop doesn't have any. Might as well learn good practices now. Poke around the tutorial section for other helpful gems like this one.

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/f71/basic-juice-fermenting-guide-14202/

Good Luck. Don't panic. It will take time to get that starter to live since the Kmeta is designed to stun it into submission. Use the time to read read read tutorials and the beginner forum area. You'll get the best answers when you ask specific questions and give lots of info about amounts timing etc. Without all that info no one can really help.

Pam in cinti

 

[dralarms]

Why in the world would you add baking soda to your must? That would reduce acid, and add sodium to your wine as well. I simply don't understand that advice.

You need to get rid of the SO2. You should splash your juice by pouring it back and forth between a couple of buckets to aerate it. That should help reduce the SO2. You added way too much sulfites.

I would not add the skins at this point. They are probably on the rotten side.

How does that lower your acid? I was told to do that from a man that has retired from his family's winery and is very knowledgeable.

 

[GreginND]

How does that lower your acid? I was told to do that from a man that has retired from his family's winery and is very knowledgeable.

Either your winery friend is clueless or you misunderstood what he was adding and/or why.

Baking soda is Sodium Bicarbonate. It's a base. It will neutralize acid. I would never add it to my wine or must as it adds sodium as well. IF I needed to reduce acid, I would use potassium carbonate, potassium bicarbonate or calcium carbonate.

The "volcano" you refer to is the bicarbonate reacting with acid to produce CO2. Your winery friend didn't think the effervescent would drive off SO2, did he?

The only thing I know of to reduce SO2 is hydrogen peroxide.