help what went wrong

[trolo]

ok I don't what happened, I am a first time wine maker.I got a kit of Grand Cru Zinfandel Blush and a kit of Grand Cru Johannisburg Riesling. they both went easy to make, bottled and i just opened one of each..... viniger taste in both!!! how did I go wrong???? help??

 

[Pumpkinman]

Welcome to Wine Making Talk.
Can you post the steps you took starting from cleaning the bottles to corking, this will help to diagnose the issue, but this is usually a result of a cleaning and sanitizing issue.
Tom

 

[JohnT]

If it turned to vinegar, then it is most likely a sanitation issue..

As pumpkinman suggests, please describe the steps you took.

Also, could you let us know specific things like how the wine was storred (in a carboy? Under an airlock? was the carboy filled to the top?) and your sanitation techniques (do you use k-meta?)

 

[trolo]

sure,
first i washed bottles (they were bought new)
then used Easy Clean Sanitizer on bottles
used #9 1 1/2 Nomacorcs corks soaked in water before use
thanks
tom

 

[trolo]

6 gal carboy under airlock filled within 2 inch from airlock
Thanks all I will try to sanitize better
just very sad

 

[trolo]

sorry one more question...
i assume that there isn't way to recover this once it goes??
thanks
Tom

 

[GreginND]

Does it really taste like vinegar or is it just sour? It could be that it just isn't sweet enough for you.

I have some doubts it really is vinegar because that would require an acetobacter infection, no sulfites and exposure to a significant amount of air for some time. It appears you have kept your wine protected and, if using a kit, would have done the appropriate additions of metabisulfite and potentially potassium sorbate? It should not turn to vinegar in the bottle if it had adequate SO2, even if you didn't even wash your bottles.

Does it taste better if you add sugar? You can always sweeten your glass or the bottle as you open and serve it.

 

[trolo]

yes vinegar
does it make a difference if they stood upright for a month before laying down?
took some time to make wine rack.
Thanks
tom

 

[fabrictodyefor]

I'm pretty knew at this also, but I thought you were not supposed to soak the corks in water..... Not sure this would cause a vinegar issue, but just for future reference you may want to research soaking the corks

 

[JohnT]

Soaking corks seems to have really two camps, Those that do and those that don't.

I used to soak corks but switched to leaving them dry for two reasons..

1) Speed - I bottle a lot and taking the step to soak the corks was time that I did not need to spend.

2) cross-contamination - in theory, if I had one "diseased" cork, soaking it together with a bunch of other corks might simply spread the disease.



Vinegar - Wine turns to vinegar via a very specific type of bacteria. If you exercise the correct sanitary techniques, this should really never happen. This is why we are asking about your sanitation and also if the wine is simply too tart.

If you might have accendently added too much acid, this might explain things. It also could be fixed by a number of techniques meant to lower your acid. You might want to try this. Draw a sample of, say, 100ml the wine and add just a couple of pinches of baking soda. Swirl this around and taste it. Is the wine much improved? Is the wine still having the same level of alcoholic punch that you were expecting?


Here is what I would recommend.. Start by applying a strong dose of k-meta (perhaps 1/2 teaspoon for a 5 gallon carboy). This can be done straight away to stun/kill any existing bacterium that might be turning your wine.

The next step is to either measure the wine's PH (via a meter) or TA (via an acid test kit) and adjust the acid back down to normal (by adding potassium bicarb).

 

[GreginND]

I'm pretty knew at this also, but I thought you were not supposed to soak the corks in water..... Not sure this would cause a vinegar issue, but just for future reference you may want to research soaking the corks

Indeed, soaking corks is not recommended. But some folks who only have a hand corker and not a floor corker find it very difficult to get the corks in unless they've been soaked. Of course the solution is to get a proper corker!

 

[CowboyRam]

Soaking corks seems to have really two camps, Those that do and those that don't.

I used to soak corks but switched to leaving them dry for two reasons..

1) Speed - I bottle a lot and taking the step to soak the corks was time that I did not need to spend.

2) cross-contamination - in theory, if I had one "diseased" cork, soaking it together with a bunch of other corks might simply spread the disease.



Vinegar - Wine turns to vinegar via a very specific type of bacteria. If you exercise the correct sanitary techniques, this should really never happen. This is why we are asking about your sanitation and also if the wine is simply too tart.

If you might have accendently added too much acid, this might explain things. It also could be fixed by a number of techniques meant to lower your acid. You might want to try this. Draw a sample of, say, 100ml the wine and add just a couple of pinches of baking soda. Swirl this around and taste it. Is the wine much improved? Is the wine still having the same level of alcoholic punch that you were expecting?


Here is what I would recommend.. Start by applying a strong dose of k-meta (perhaps 1/2 teaspoon for a 5 gallon carboy). This can be done straight away to stun/kill any existing bacterium that might be turning your wine.

The next step is to either measure the wine's PH (via a meter) or TA (via an acid test kit) and adjust the acid back down to normal (by adding potassium bicarb).

John,

How do you sanitize your corks?

 

[GreginND]

Corks come sanitized with SO2 already. No need to sanitize them. I have never sanitized my corks and never had a problem in the last 14 years. The wine, if in clean bottles and with proper levels of SO2 will be sanitizer enough.

BUT, if you want to sanitize, make a 'corkidor'. Find a bucket with a tight fitting lid. Place a bowl of acidulated sulfite solution in the bottom. Then place the corks around it (not in it) and close the lid so the SO2 gasses can sanitize it. Leave it there for a while.

 

[JohnT]

John,

How do you sanitize your corks?

I do give them a quick rinse in k-meta solution, but I do not let them sit in the stuff.

 

[BernardSmith]

Hi trolo, Sorry to hear about your problem with vinegar. One question I have is how long did you have the wine sit in the primary fermenter? Is there any chance that fruit flies could have contaminated the must? Fruit flies carry the bacteria that can cause vinegar

 

[trolo]

Thanks BernardSmith, I am heartbroken haha
the wine was in the primary for about 5-7 days. i do not think that it was possible to get any into it. I had it covered with a towel. only removed to stir and i was trying to be careful when i did remove it. i could see possibly one batch but both I find hard to believe that.

 

[GaDawg]

Don't be a cork soaker lol

 

[Runningwolf]

Lots of good suggestions for your unfortunate situation. Many people will smell the same wine and give you different descriptions. You said they had a vinegar taste. My question is did you mean they smell like vinegar or did you actually taste them and they also tasted bad.

This is just a stretch and process of elimination but try taking an old penny and putting it in a glas of the wine an swirl it around a good bit. Now check and see if the smell went away. If this is the case it's an H2S problem that's easily remedied.

I am also baffled by the vinegar smell so soon on this. Were the bottles stored near a heat source or direct sunlight?

 

[trolo]

wow you guys are great here. thank why i am thankful my friend told me to check this site out.
first off i understand people taste, i can drink any wine dry and or sweet my bride has the sweet tooth and likes the sweet wines. yes i tasted both and it is vinegar.
I love wine and thought that i would try my hand at it....
I am now even more determined to succeed that is why i do appreciate all the help.
bottles were stored in a dark cool closet. i will try the penny trick

 

[JohnT]

Don't be a cork soaker lol

You offend me sir!


I'll have you know that I come from a long line of cork soakers. Sometimes me, my father, and my brother would soak each other's corks to save time. Sometimes even my nephew would get in on the fun.

Can you imagine, 3 generations of my family soaking each other's corks?