Dummy Question

[Berrywine]

so country am i right in assuming, from what you said in an earlier post, that the french oak is milder than american oak? just trying to learn a little more about it. i am in the dummy class on this subject.


berryEdited by: Berrywine

 

[Hippie]

Yes, Berry. French oak is more subtle, then Hungarian, and American is more harsh, especially the heavy toast.


George, did you ever find any untoasted French oak?

 

[Berrywine]

thanks cw,that helps


berry

 

[Vaughn]

I have 2 questions on this topic...


1. I have done 2 kits so far. The Cabernet came with oak chips, the Pinot Noir did not. Why the difference? Is this just traditional ways of preparing these two wines?


2. My instructions say that if I intend to age my wine longer than 6 months, I need to add more sulfite. Can someone tell me definitively that if I prepare my kit as is, will I be opening a bottle of vinegar if I let it age longer than 6 months?


Oh, and another thing. If I do opt to add sulfites, It calls to disolve the tablets in water beforeI add it to my wine. I don't like the idea of adding more water to my wine. Can I thief some wine out and disolve it in that?


Dogbert says, "If there is no such thing as a dumb questions, then what kind of questions do dumb people ask?"

 

[masta]

Pinot Noir is a lighter and fruiter wine with much less tannins than a Cab and therefore I believe the manufacture choose not to oak it.


If you age the wine properly it should be no problem to age it past the 6 months with no added sulfites.


The only way to really know how much sulfites are in the finished wine is to test it and then adjust it accordingly.


The small amount of water that is needed to dissolve a campden tablet will have no effect on a 6 gallon batch.

 

[Goslin]

MedPretzle, since it was brought up, I have a question for you.

I think I have LOTS of hibiscus but am not really sure. In late season
do they have seed pods that open and drop the seeds? I had some
pictures but can't find them now. Any way what ever I have grows like
weeds and I just mow down the small plants. Sound familiar?



Rick


Edited by: Goslin

 

[Vaughn]

Masta,


Okay, that helps.


Let's say I test for sulfites and go through all that to make sure I have the proper amount to age...yada, yada. Is it beneficial to have as low a level of sulfites as possible? Again, according to instructions, the added sulfites do not affect the wine's taste. If I don't have a sulfite alergy, would it not be prudent to make the addition, to be on the safe side?

 

[masta]

Sorry I missed this question.....Yes it would be prudent to make the addition of added sulfites to bring it to the proper level as indicated in the instructions.Protecting your wine is critical for aging long term.


I believe even with making this addition the sulfite level will be much lower than most commercial wines. I need to buy a few bottles and test to confirm this.....buy wine from the store...man I hate that!

Look for an article on sulfites in the upcoming newsletter for a fairly detail explanation of sulfites in wine making. I am hoping this will help to educate all of us...I know I have learned lots writing it.

 

[Vaughn]

Thanks Masta for the help. I also stopped by George's place on Saturday and got some insight on the matter. I ended up purchasing some sulfite additive and I just mixed it into my Pinot Noir last night at the de-gassing stage.


Wow! I'm learning a lot of practical chemistry here. Next, we'll tackle the Ph issue when creating fruit wines and meads.


I have to tell you guys an interesting thing that happened this weekend. I have been remodeling my 40 year old home in my spare time and Saturday night I was working on a small set of stairs that lead from my entry way to the first landing (about 6 steps). I plan to pull up the carpet that is on them and replace it with some nice stained wood. So, as I'm pulling up carpet, I notice that the top step is loose. Upon closer inspection, I found that the top two steps were part of a hinged unit that swung up to give access to the dead space below the stairs. There's even a light in it. We had no idea that this storage space even existed! And we've been living in this house for 3 years!


Ladies and gentlemen, our wine storage problems are over. We have a wine cellar.

 

[PolishWineP]

Oh Happy Day!

What a great find! Like Christmas in April!

 

[geocorn]

I can not find any untoasted oak of any kind. Seems only toasted oak is used in wine making by almost everyone.

 

[Hippie]

Ok then George, so the house toast french oak is the lightest toast?


Thanks.

 

[geocorn]

The lighest toast is the medium, then the house, then the heavy.

 

[Berrywine]

I've oaked one batch of blackberry, left it in 2 months in bulk, made it pretty "oaky", so I pulled it out and bottled. Now 6 months later I opened a bottle and can't tell I even oaked it. Does the oak fade that quickly or is it that I just didn't leave it long enough?

berry

 

[jshuey]

Long term bulk aging is one of the time honored methods for treating "over-oaked" wines. That said, six months is a kinda quick time frame for oakiness to fadeas much as you describe.


What form of oak did you use? How much oak in what quantity of wine?

 

[Berrywine]

I used "house toast american white oak", as the package says. Followed instructions for 5 grams per gal., 25 grams for my 5 gal. Left it in 2 months.


berry

 

[jshuey]

Berry...


Two things come to mind. First, I'm not sure not tasting oak is a bad thing. (See my last paragraph.)


Second, my "read is this: The dosage and time indications on packages oak are generally geared toward grape wine which, because of the seeds and the fact it is often fermented with stems, starts out with a bit more tannin than most fruit wines.


I only make wine from grapes, but I take the time indication on the package not as a maximum time, but as a good time to begin tasting. And I generally keep the cubes in until my wine starts to taste as though its been a bit overoaked, because I know its going to spend another year or more in the bottle beforeI start to consume it.


At that point (12 to 24 months after bottling), there should be no "oak" taste at all, but a pleasant, subduedvanillin flavor well integrated with all the others that make wine so special.
Edited by: jshuey

 

[Berrywine]

I should have read up on it a good bit more before I jumped in. I understand the part about not tasting the oak, I was suprised how much it "mellowed" into the wine in such a short time, which leads me to believe that I didn't leave it in long enough. Next batch that is oaked will get a longer "chip" time. It's all an experiment! thanks jshuey.


berry

 

[Hippie]

Berry, I think next time you should try whatever type of oak chips in the must, then when you rack to glass, use the oak cubes of your choice. George has a variety to choose from. 3 ounces of the cubes for 3 months total contact time is their limit, but you can do 1 ounce for 1 month or anything in between. The cubes will release the oak flavors and subtle nuances slowly and with better true barrel character. I think you will like them.

 

[Berrywine]

Now I think I'll try that! A friend of mine gave me about 7 pounds of tame blackberries out of his freezer over the holiday weekend after I brought out a bottle of home made blackberry wine. I think everybody liked it... I know he did.It'll be a small batch but what the heck. Sounds like a good opportunity to try your oak process. I learn more every batch I make. Thanks Country.

berry