Cuttings Help!!

[bellmtbbq]

Hello all!

I have been contemplating planting a small vineyard on our family farm and was informed that the NPGS does a program where you can get cuttings or seeds for free of pretty much any variety of plant out there. Turns out they have hundreds of grape varieties, so I sprung at the chance for a free vineyard (well maybe).

I know the chances of success are lower but at least I'm not sinking $400 into it without any experience. You get five cuttings per a variety, and I ordered about a dozen varieties of varying times, all reds though. I think four muscadines, cab, merlot, zinfandel, pinot noir, sangiovese, and a couple others. Basically to see what sticks.

- I'm guessing I should do a soil rooting. Someone suggested a rooting box with sand but that kind of worries me. I own grow lights and have a basement that stays around 60 F so I could get them going through the winter. Any tips?

- What's the time table with cuttings? 3 years to first harvest if I do everything right? Zone 7 here.

 

[grapeman]

I always hate to be blunt, but you are seriously handicapping your chances of sucess with a vineyard by starting with cuttings. You admit you know nothing about grapes. You are adding one more serious hurdle by choosing to root these varieties. Some of them do not root well at all and others should be grafted to reistant rootstock in your area, especially the vinifera varieties. Muscadines will rarely root from dormant wood cuttings (taken during the plant's annual pruning), but often see major success with softwood cuttings. It is too late to order green cuttings for this year.

The first thing you should do is tell us a bit of background information, such as where you are located. That way we have a better chance of helping you if you choose to continue on this route.

If you think sinking a few hundred dollars is too much to get good vines, you are in for a rude awakening as to the overall costs associated with even a small vineyard. You will have the vines, posts, wire, bracing or anchors, training supplies, sprays, equipment needed to take care of it- even hand tools add up. Vineyards are not cheap, but they are rewarding, so if you are still up to the challenge we are up to helping you out.
Good luck.

 

[bigdrums2]

I agree, the muscadines won't root from dormant cuttings, however other bunch varieties will root well. I've done ten with heat lamps and sand boxes, all work fine. Those you can't get to root, just buy. I think the only issue you will run into though is having those vinifera on their own roots and not phylloxera resistant roots. If you live in the south (which I'm guessing you are if muscadine is available) don't even bother with vinifera. Go hybrid. It will save you money an heartache -I had to learn that myself.

 

[bellmtbbq]

Sorry, the storm got me offline for a while. I'm zone 7, New Jersey. I have a total of fourteen varities coming, to give me a shot with something. I'm experienced in agriculture, just not grapes. I think I'm starting with five hybrids, five viniferas, three muscadines, and one other type. I'm hoping a cultivar like Deleware (found 10-15 minutes from us in 1850s) should work. My only worry is our soil is pretty clay-y and water sits a little bit. We have an empty risen bed that I'll plant some in.


We'll see what grows. I'm alright to pay money for training systems, etc, just the upfront investment in something that may not grow around here wasn't worth it for me. I'd rather start free and if I get anything to grow I will invest in it.

 

[spaniel]

Sorry, the storm got me offline for a while. I'm zone 7, New Jersey. I have a total of fourteen varities coming, to give me a shot with something. I'm experienced in agriculture, just not grapes. I think I'm starting with five hybrids, five viniferas, three muscadines, and one other type. I'm hoping a cultivar like Deleware (found 10-15 minutes from us in 1850s) should work. My only worry is our soil is pretty clay-y and water sits a little bit. We have an empty risen bed that I'll plant some in.


We'll see what grows. I'm alright to pay money for training systems, etc, just the upfront investment in something that may not grow around here wasn't worth it for me. I'd rather start free and if I get anything to grow I will invest in it.

In the end it is your time, but IMHO this approach is setting yourself up for a lot of frustration and wasted effort. You can do a pretty good job of selecting what varieties will do best by researching the hardiness/issues of the various varieties, then going to nearby wineries/vineyards to see what they are successfully growing. Your specific location and soil will have some impact of course, but this strategy would make you very likely to succeed. This was the approach I took and out of 6 varieties I started I only had to give up on one -- and I knew it was marginal for our cold winter temps from the start.

The other trap is starting with the varieties you want to drink wine from, not what your area will grow. I was doing some tastings from a nearby small winery and we got onto talking vines and I got the impression the winery owner was looking down on the grapes I was growing ("Oh, well we like to drink THIS wine so we don't grow stuff like that.") Then we got onto how much wine I was making from my hobby vineyard, and they admitted that they put $80,000 into their vineyard 10 years ago and have yet to harvest a single grape!

Starting from scratch to grow vines and make wine is a long-term proposition. I would think it would be unpleasant to work at this for 4-5 years to find the ones that work through trial and error, then another 3-4 to finally get up to a usable number of vines. Also, some vines may do just fine for a few years and you think you are set, and then you get an unusual cold snap or something, and you lose them all.

Quality vines are about $7.50 apiece. If you enjoy the experimentations with the cuttings that is one thing; however at that price I would not see all that time and effort invested as saving me anything significant monetarily.