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Co-innoculating vs. sequential

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Donz

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That sounds like a very interesting blend Mike. I guess we have something in common - wine in a small orange juice glass for breakfast! haha

Hope your wine and MLF work out great. I'm sure they will.

Looks like we decided on a 80% Maggio Zin / 8% Petit Syrah / 12% Carignan. Might even cut the petit to 5%...
 

Mac60

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Donz,
looks like a nice blend.
How about I send you a bottle and you send me a bottle and we compare.
 

Donz

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Sounds great Mike. Let's let our wines get some age and touch base when the time is right.
 

Jay204

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For those that co-inoculate - does the timing of the co-inoculation seem to matter much? I was originally planning on a sequential inoculation (partially due to BM4x4 not being recommended for MLF), but I've since changed my mind. The issue is that I pitched my yeast on Sunday. So I was thinking I'd add the MLB near the end of primary ferment (which is what the VP41 directions suggest to do).

I also don't have Acti-ML for rehydrating, if that matters for timing. I do have MLB nutrient, however.
 

Donz

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Yes the timing does matter very much. It needs to be added 24 hours after pitching your yeast so you are too late for co-inoculation. You will need to stick with sequential.

FYI - BM4x4 works perfectly fine with co-inoculation and I have used it several times with VP41 in the past.
 

Jay204

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@Donz can I ask why it's too late? Perhaps it's not considered a co-inoculation anymore but is there an issue starting an MLF while still in primary near the end of a fermentation vs waiting until it's in a carboy?
 

Jay204

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I have never done it that way but you should wait until primary alcohol fermentation is complete. VP41 instructions suggest 24 to max 48 hours after pitching yeast depending on your So2 levels at crush. Have a look: http://tools.lallemandwine.com/wine-bacteria-sensory-profiling/pdf/MBR_VP41_Lalvin.pdf
Strange, I found this spec sheet which contradicts that. I guess I'll wait until post press to be safe. It'll just be harder to distribute the MLB in smaller quantities throughout several carboys.
 

Jay204

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For those that are interested, I spoke with someone in the oenology department at lallemand. She confirmed that co-inoculation should take place ideally no later than 24 hours after pitching yeast and sequential should only take place after the must has reached final SG, otherwise it may "interfere and compete with bacteria added when yeast are declining"

She also commented on when to choose co-inoculation vs sequential, stating "co-inoculation typically results in more fresh and fruit driven wines while traditional sequential inoculation has more ageability and complexity".
 

Wheelman

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For those who have had several successful Co MLF seasons under them can you give me any pointers. I have successfully always done sequential. But Co-inoculating seems to make sense.
I have 4 batches going to happen this coming weekend. I'm doing split batches D80/D254
2 50Wine/70Must OVZ 1 D80 batch and 1 D254 Batch I have CH16 for each
Also 2 30Gallons wine/43 Gallons Must batches of Lanza Sangiovese Bruello/Cab also CH16
Question, Do I keep my Yeast/Goferm and FermK scheduale the same?
Yeast/Goferm, than my Ferm-k (1) start of cap and Ferm K (2) with brix 8-10 Brix drop.
Than Add MLB CH16? when 24Hours or 48 hours after pitching yeast.
Depending on how fast the fermentation, I may be adding FermK 2 before the CH16 MLB, is that OK?
Last year I think it was 16 hours after FermK 1 that I got 8 Brix to drop and added my Fermk2
Thanks in advance .
Mike
I have never co-inoculated. Reading thru this I didn't notice any talk about quantities. if I co-inoculate do I use must quantity or potential juice quantity to base amount of ML bacteria to pitch. Or does it even matter?
 

stickman

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I would base the bacteria addition on the expected wine yield not the must volume.
 

Mac60

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P1060582.JPG OK 1 week and a day after pitching the MLB CH16 did the 1st racking on Tuesday off the gross lees and tested yesterday, Look like the Malolatic acid is just about complete I'll give it another 2 weeks and test again. I'm running out of room, Think we maxed out our production.P1060588.JPG P1060584.JPG P1060562.JPG P1060579.JPG P1060585.JPG
Mike
 
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CDrew

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Nice set-up. Glad your co-inoculation worked out after all the positive recommendations here.

Congrats!
 

Mac60

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Nice set-up. Glad your co-inoculation worked out after all the positive recommendations here.
You Betcha, Again thanks allot for the info and encouragement, Time will tell with the taste, but up to this point I see Co-inoculation as my protocol from this season on, Now I just need to get a bladder press for next year.
Mike
 

Donz

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Looking good Mike! I always give it a few extra weeks resting before stabilizing with sulfite just to ensure MLF is completely done.

Great set-up, love the steel tanks.
 

Mac60

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Looking good Mike! I always give it a few extra weeks resting before stabilizing with sulfite just to ensure MLF is completely done.

Great set-up, love the steel tanks.
For sure I will give a few more weeks before So2 dose.
Thanks Donz,
 

Boatboy24

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Looking good! Glad the co-inocculation is working. I'm definitely a convert.
 
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