Multitude of Questions....

Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum

Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

scubaman2151

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2007
Messages
765
Reaction score
0
Hello guys,


Over the weekend I took a beginners wine making class, however the teachers wasn't to helpful or clear so I come to you with my questions.


Answer what you can I know there is quite a few.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1) What is chill proofing/cold stabilization and what does it accomplish (i saw the other topic on this but I'm just re-asking for clarification) also, what wines need this done to it, and is it a must do or optional?


2) The teacher said to use citrus acid in your sterilizing solution, what is this?


3) Benefits of a acid test kit? What does the reading mean?


4) What is the difference between Brix and SG, which one is more beneficial? How do you add acid to your wine if the acid content is low?


5) Do you check your Ph, how do you adjust it if it is off?


6) Any benefit to yeast nutrient? Do you hydrate your yeast before you add it or just pour it in?


6A) They recommend certain types of yeast for different wines:
Pasteur Red - Used for Red wines, mostly from California
Cote des Blancs - used for all whites
Never use champagne yeast
Do you find this to be accurate? What do you use/recommend?


7) They recommend racking multiple times, not quite sure, but they recommend it, any idea why? They also recommend adding 1/4 tsp of k-meta when racking before bottling or letting it bulk age.


8) What is MLF ( Malolatic Fermentation)?


9) How do you sweeten your wine, what proportion of sugar do you use to sweeten it?


10) How long do you soak your corks before bottling, they recommended to soak corks for 20 mins, in a k-meta solution to make them easy to work with.


Thanks for the help guys,


Scuba
 
I can address yeast. I think they are trying not to confuse new winemakers, OR they are not all that experienced themselves. The yeast you use can make a HUGE difference in the finished wine!

Personally, I am doing a lot of experimenting with yeast this year. I have 1 type of grape (all from the same pressing) with 3 different yeasts, 3 different batches. I tried some wine a friend made last year, and he did the same thing... 3 yeasts, one pressing. The difference in taste was dramatic, and the Cotes was the most neutral tasting. For this particular white, the w15 really brought our some fantastic fruit flavors, and it had more body to it.

Anyway, I am on a quest to learn as much as I can about different yeasts.
 
Wow, that's a lot of questions. I'm not sure that I agree with your instructor on some items, but here goes:

1.) Cold stabilization will help to remove bitartrates in the wine, otherwise known as wine diamonds. Tataric acid precipitates out of the wine into crystal when exposed to low temperatures of 0 Celcius (32 F) for 2 - 3 weeks. This results in a softening of the acids in the wine. Most white wines and some red undergo this. This is only really needed on wines made from grapes, and not kits. The only kits that I know of that specifically talk about cold stabilization are RJS EP kits, and I think Mosti Mondiale might recommend it too.

2.) Your instructor mentioned Citric acid in your K-Meta solution. It increases the effectiveness of K-Meta as a sanitation agent by lowering the PH of the solution.

3.) Knowing what your TA is on your must, other than in kits is essential to good winemaking. The acid test kit measures the Titratable Acidity (TA) in the must, and I think the measurement is in grams per liter. Red wines typically go for about .65 and whites for .7. Again it all depends on style of the wine. Mostly this is used for really ripe grapes, which are low on acid, and this will help you to balance the must before fermentation. Kits are already acid balanced, so you don't need to do this in kits.

4.) Brix measures the sugars in the juice, and requires a refractometer, while specific gravity, also measures the sugars in a solution, but does so by density measurements. Brix tells us when the grapes are ready, and must be used on pure juice, as I believe that alcohol can throw off the reading. So use brix when testing a drop of grape juice, and SG when its in a must.

You add acid in granulated form of either tartaric, malic, or citric depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Once you have your TA, you can then calculate the additions (how much), in grams that you need to add to your must.

5.) PH is the strength of the acid in the must. Wine usually falls between PH 3.0 and 3.8. Anything above is highly susceptible to bacterial infection, and anything below that will taste like battery acid. PH helps so that you can taste the balance between acids in the wine.

6.) Yeast nutrient is essential to provide the yeast with additional ingredients that they need to perform a healthy fermentation. It is already included in kits, but is needed in almost any other must. It usually includes di-ammonium phosphate (DAP) which is a usable form of nitrogen that the yeast need. Depending on brand, nutrient will also include vitamin b, amino acids, and yeast hulls (cell walls from dead yeast). The yeast use all these ingredients to finish up fermentation. I just sprinkle my yeast on now, but if I must rehydrate it, I make a yeast starter.

6a) There are MANY different yeast strains that accomplish very different end results in wines. Some bring out flowery esters, while others kill off all wild yeasts. Here are the main yeasts out there:

Red Star Pasteur Red and Lalvin RC212 - used primarily for reds, and not mostly california since both these strains came from FRANCE!

Red Star Cote de Blancs, or Lalvin D-47 - primarily used for white wines and roses. Brings out the flowery character in whites when fermented cool.

Chapagne yeast (RS Premier Cuvee, Champagne, and Lalvin EC-1118) are the most commonly used yeasts out there! I have no idea why your instructor would not use these. These yeasts are very fast ferementers, have low nutritional requirements, are low foamers, and high flocculation (means they stick together and fall out of solution fast when they are done). This is the typical yeast you will get in a wine kit, and a yeast that I use a lot for its predictable qualities. It is a neutral yeast, in that it doesn't bring out any esters or other aromatics in the wine.

Of course there are many other yeast strains that are common as well. Red Star Montrachet, and Lalvin 71B-1122 are generally used for fruit or country wines. D-47 from Lalvin is used for meads a lot. Lalvin K1V-1116 is used to start stuck fermentations and is a good all around yeast as well. I use it when other yeast will not work.

7.) Racking is the process of transferring the wine from one clean vessel to another, while leaving the collected sediment behind. This is typically the way to clear a wine when clearing agents are not used. Each successive racking will assist to remove more sediment. 1/4 tsp of K-meta will help to keep the SO2 levels up in the wine to help prevent oxidation when racking. I usually add that every 2nd racking, if doing it the long way around. Typically now, I add a fining agent like isinglass, rack off the sediment, add 1/4tsp of k-meta and then bulk age for a good long time.

8.) Wines contain malic acid, which is a harsh acid and very tart. This is the predominant acid in green apples. Sometimes when a wine needs softer acids, we introduce malo-lactic bacteria into the wine. This bacteria ferments the malic acid and turns it into a mild lactic acid. Hence the name malo-lactic. It also produces some flavor compounds like buttered popcorn, which many find pleasing in some white wines. Most commercial chardonnays and almost all reds undergo MLB to soften the acidic bite. Kits should NEVER undergo mlb because it would remove too much acid in them and leave them flabby.

9.) Backsweetening is the safest method for a home wine maker. Ferment the wine dry, stabilize with K-meta and potassium sorbate, then re-introduce sugar in the form of simple syrup (water and sugar that have been boiled). The portion used is all done to personal taste and wine style trying to achieve.

10.) I NEVER soak my corks! Soaking a cork is a good way to get it stuck in the bottle as they adhere to glass when inserted wet for some reason. Dry insertion is the recommened way from all cork manufacturers. A floor corker really helps with dry insertion since it compresses the cork quite easily. Hand corkers do benefit from soaked corks, but a person would be better off using a smaller cork, #8 as opposed to #9, if using a hand corker. Almost all corks today also come with a bit of teflon or other compound placed on the sides for easy insertion. Soaking corks is a very old way of thinking, and can cause issues.

I hope this helps...this was a long reply.

Dean
 
Dean said:
Wow, that's a lot of questions. I'm not sure that I agree with your instructor on some items, but here goes:

Excellent job Dean
smiley32.gif
and I will just add a few comments in blue to yours.

1.) Cold stabilization will help to remove bitartrates in the wine, otherwise known as wine diamonds. Tartaric acid precipitates out of the wine into crystal when exposed to low temperatures of 0 Celsius (32 F) for 2 - 3 weeks. This results in a softening of the acids in the wine. Most white wines and some red undergo this. This is only really needed on wines made from grapes, and not kits. The only kits that I know of that specifically talk about cold stabilization are RJS EP kits, and I think Mosti Mondiale might recommend it too. I have found many of my better reds kits throwing bitartrate crystals but only after a year in the wine cellar at ~56 degrees F. If you store your kit reds at a warmer temp you most likely will never see this.

2.) Your instructor mentioned Citric acid in your K-Meta solution. It increases the effectiveness of K-Meta as a sanitation agent by lowering the PH of the solution. The effectiveness of the K-meta increases since the molecularSO2 available is a direct function of the pH. This is why kits normally have a fairly low sulfite level sincethe amount added is calculatedbased on the pH of the wine when it is finished.

3.) Knowing what your TA is on your must, other than in kits is essential to good winemaking. The acid test kit measures the Titratable Acidity (TA) in the must, and I think the measurement is in grams per liter. Red wines typically go for about .65 and whites for .7. Again it all depends on style of the wine. Mostly this is used for really ripe grapes, which are low on acid, and this will help you to balance the must before fermentation. Kits are already acid balanced, so you don't need to do this in kits.

4.) Brix measures the sugars in the juice, and requires a refractometer, while specific gravity, also measures the sugars in a solution, but does so by density measurements. Brix tells us when the grapes are ready, and must be used on pure juice, as I believe that alcohol can throw off the reading. So use brix when testing a drop of grape juice, and SG when its in a must.

You add acid in granulated form of either tartaric, malic, or citric depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Once you have your TA, you can then calculate the additions (how much), in grams that you need to add to your must.

5.) PH is the strength of the acid in the must. Wine usually falls between PH 3.0 and 3.8. Anything above is highly susceptible to bacterial infection, and anything below that will taste like battery acid. PH helps so that you can taste the balance between acids in the wine.

6.) Yeast nutrient is essential to provide the yeast with additional ingredients that they need to perform a healthy fermentation. It is already included in kits, but is needed in almost any other must. It usually includes di-ammonium phosphate (DAP) which is a usable form of nitrogen that the yeast need. Depending on brand, nutrient will also include vitamin b, amino acids, and yeast hulls (cell walls from dead yeast). The yeast use all these ingredients to finish up fermentation. I just sprinkle my yeast on now, but if I must rehydrate it, I make a yeast starter.

6a) There are MANY different yeast strains that accomplish very different end results in wines. Some bring out flowery esters, while others kill off all wild yeasts. Here are the main yeasts out there:

Red Star Pasteur Red and Lalvin RC212 - used primarily for reds, and not mostly California since both these strains came from FRANCE!

Red Star Cote de Blancs, or Lalvin D-47 - primarily used for white wines and roses. Brings out the flowery character in whites when fermented cool.

Champagne yeast (RS Premier Cuvee, Champagne, and Lalvin EC-1118) are the most commonly used yeasts out there! I have no idea why your instructor would not use these. These yeasts are very fast ferementers, have low nutritional requirements, are low foamers, and high flocculation (means they stick together and fall out of solution fast when they are done). This is the typical yeast you will get in a wine kit, and a yeast that I use a lot for its predictable qualities. It is a neutral yeast, in that it doesn't bring out any esters or other aromatics in the wine.

Of course there are many other yeast strains that are common as well. Red Star Montrachet, and Lalvin 71B-1122 are generally used for fruit or country wines. D-47 from Lalvin is used for meads a lot. Lalvin K1V-1116 is used to start stuck fermentations and is a good all around yeast as well. I use it when other yeast will not work.

7.) Racking is the process of transferring the wine from one clean vessel to another, while leaving the collected sediment behind. This is typically the way to clear a wine when clearing agents are not used. Each successive racking will assist to remove more sediment. 1/4 tsp of K-meta will help to keep the SO2 levels up in the wine to help prevent oxidation when racking. I usually add that every 2nd racking, if doing it the long way around. Typically now, I add a fining agent like isinglass, rack off the sediment, add 1/4tsp of k-meta and then bulk age for a good long time.

8.) Wines contain malic acid, which is a harsh acid and very tart. This is the predominant acid in green apples. Sometimes when a wine needs softer acids, we introduce malo-lactic bacteria into the wine. This bacteria ferments the malic acid and turns it into a mild lactic acid. Hence the name malo-lactic. It also produces some flavor compounds like buttered popcorn, which many find pleasing in some white wines. Most commercial chardonnays and almost all reds undergo MLB to soften the acidic bite. Kits should NEVER undergo mlb because it would remove too much acid in them and leave them flabby. MLF can only be accoplished if the pH and more importantly SO2 level is in the proper range. NEVER try to do malolatic fermentation to a wine you added potassium sorbate to or it will wind up smelling like geraniums.

9.) Backsweetening is the safest method for a home wine maker. Ferment the wine dry, stabilize with K-meta and potassium sorbate, then re-introduce sugar in the form of simple syrup (water and sugar that have been boiled). The portion used is all done to personal taste and wine style trying to achieve.

10.) I NEVER soak my corks! Soaking a cork is a good way to get it stuck in the bottle as they adhere to glass when inserted wet for some reason. Dry insertion is the recommend way from all cork manufacturers. A floor corker really helps with dry insertion since it compresses the cork quite easily. Hand corkers do benefit from soaked corks, but a person would be better off using a smaller cork, #8 as opposed to #9, if using a hand corker. Almost all corks today also come with a bit of Teflon or other compound placed on the sides for easy insertion. Soaking corks is a very old way of thinking, and can cause issues. In the November FVW newsletter next month there will be an article on corks and cork preparation (Cork Humidor!) since as Dean says the old soaking method is everywhere you look and this issue comes up often.

I hope this helps...this was a long reply. Great Job!!!

Dean
Edited by: masta
 
Great job Dean. I saw the list of questions, but didn't have time this morning to answer them all. That should help answer a few questions Scubaman!
 
I have an acid test kit that I use to test TA. I thought I was testing for pH, but it appears to be different based on numbers 3) and 5). So, what is the difference, and how important is testing for pH?


Thanks,
Mike
 
To simplify it greatly, the TA measures theamount of acid you have and the pH tells you how strong that acid is. Think of ph differences as say Vinegar compared to hydrochloric acid. and TA as the measure of amount of those, such as a cup of hydrochloric acid and a gallon of vinegar(they are both acid, but just a cup of hydrochloric acid is stronger than a whole gallon of vinegar).
 
Thanks a ton for the answers dean, much appreciated.


I read through those all, now I have to think about it and if I have anymore questions Ill be back.


Scuba
 

Latest posts

Back
Top