when good wines gone bad

[joeswine]

Moved back to go forward

remember what I had I had said in the beginning of this thread about layering tannins by first using chips or wood spirals and then dust, remember that, well that was my way of building structure into the wine , as well as adding depth.

Remember I also stated that by doing this unique succession of layers you will achieve the end result, that is the science of oaking, my way. It takes thinking outside the box just a little to make a difference, if you give this a try I think you'll see that it works.

 

[joeswine]

Now that we have now foundation of the wine which is alcohol, and the walls which are the tannins, now we need to bind them together and to that end we use acids.

ACIDS, the four predominant types of acids found in wine are as follows.

TarTARIC, MaliC, lactic and citrus acids these acids add what is called/ structure and help shape the flavors and aftertaste(also called /finish). Acids also act as a preservative. But there is another acid if only in trace amounts contribute to the sweet/sour vinegar taste. Too much ACETIC in the wine is not a good thing and can often be detected in super Duper cheaptable wines.

Next I will try to break down which each of these acids mean to you and me as a cellar dweller.

 

[joeswine]

I would like to state that the new format is clean...nice job

 

[joeswine]

layering of components,remember that ,using grapefruit zest or citrus zest picks up the flavor as a additive to wine,this helpsto acidify,create balance in the wine ,a binder ,remember that in the beginning of when good wines gone bad,see how the layering of oaks and zest can bind a wine together and form the structure of the wine ,it all fits,I might seam a little unorthodox but it all works for a cellar dweller and the small quantities we make

NOW WE CAN MOVE ON ,AND SHOWWHAT ACIDS DO FOR US IN THE BULILDING OF THE STRUCTURE OF WINE

 

[joeswine]

ANY QUESTIONS?

 

[joeswine]

HOW DOES YOUR WINE TASTE OR FINISH,WHEN WE BUILD A WINE ONE OF THE PRIMARY BUILDING BLOCKS IS ACIDS,MALIC.LACTIC ,CITRUS,ACETIC,ASCORBIC,AND BUTYRIC,WHO WOULD OF BELIEVED THAT THESE COMPOUNDS INFLUENCE TO FLAVOR ,COLOR AND FINISH OF WINE YET THEY ALSO HELP PREVENT OXIDATION AND SPOILAGE ANY OR ALL THE ABOVE CAN BE IN SOME SMALL AMOUNT DIRECTLY ORindirectly RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FINAL FINISH OF THE WINE .i LIKE THAT WORD FINISH,BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO US AS WINE MAKERS ?
THE FINAL OUTCOME, THE TASTE AT THE END ,SWEET, SOUR ,THIN FLABBY,TART,BITE andsmooth these areTHE ATTRIBUTES THAT ACIDS CONTRIBUTE TO THE FINISH OF THE WINE.


TO BE CONTINUED.........

 

[joeswine]

tartaric acid, one of the strong men of acids ,the most important in wine making for it helps control chemical stability of the wines and its color and in influencing the taste of the finish(finish).

like that word and what it means to you and me is the end result ,the finish taste ,smooth,bitter,sweet ,sour,flabby etc;the overall wines finish along with malic acid,and a lesser extent citric acid,are the primary acids we us or add to the wines structure.

if i stated this before its good to go over this once again,kit wines and ,fresh juice ,
usuallywhen we get them are already balanced out for us ,so, not that much attention is payed to the acid balance which is between 2.9/3.9 depending on the type of wine,however if your not care full with you sanitations some of the others not so good ones come into play.

have you ever heard of tartaric crystals,they look like broken shards of Glass or diamonds in the bottom of the bottle ,extremetemperature change (cold) while is suspension allow this crystis to form anddrop out of suspension,very cool looking buta bit hard to explain to your guess that there not harmful.




tartaric acid

 

[joeswine]

Malic acid, along with tartaric acid, is one of the principal organic acids found in wine grapes. It is found in nearly every fruit and berry plant but it's most often associated with green apples from which flavor it most relatively projects in wine. Its name comes from the Latin malum meaning Apple. In the grapevine, malic acid is involved in several processes which are essential for the health and stability of the vine as the vine progresses through the ripening stages, malic acid is metabolized in the process of respiration and by harvest its concentration could very low. When all the malic acid is used up in the grape is considered overripe or senescent. Winemakers must compensate for this loss and manually adding acid at the winery in a process known as the certification or MLf. In this process bacteria convert the stronger malic acid into the softer lactic acid. The bacteria behind this process can be found naturally in the winery, in group urges which make oak wine barrels that will house a population of bacteria or they can be manually introduced by the winemaker with a cultured specimen. For someone's, the conversion malic into lactic acid can be beneficial especially if the winery has excessive levels of malic acid. For other wines, such aschenin blanc,Riesling, it producesoff flavors in wine such as a buttery smell that would not be appealing for a variety. In general, red wines are most often put through MLS than whites which means that there is a higher likelihood of finding malic acid in white wines though there are exceptions such as Oak Chardonnay which is often put through MLS.

 

[joeswine]

malic acid, so how do we use this to benefit ourselves or do we , you shouldn't use itwith kits, we can use it fresh juice,but first ask ,what type of finish do we want to have some call it buttery, somecall it smooth, malic or MLf is not for every wine and can be quite expensive to do. So let's go back and review the partners, remember I talked about howwines partner up with food they do that because of the mouthfeel ,beinging structured by the acids involved.






always remember the rules

 

[joeswine]

On the other hand, used properly malic acid and its properties be very complementary to the wine body knowing when and how to use it is the key there are people on this form who use it all the time such astepe or Tom they know how and when to use it in and in the correct proportions, it is part of the art of wine making.

 

[joeswine]

Well it's been a little while since we talked and I've been very busy with my heating and air-conditioning business hadn't had tomuch time, So before we get back to the acids like to bringthis Friday and events .
Last Friday my friend came over to do his wine ,he's making a Chardonnay we did it with raisins and mlf,we also added asmall amount of liquid Oak. Then I began the process of racking the two different blueberries and my awesome melbec, along with my carmare plusa peach and plum blend, to my SOAVE I added a1/8th teaspoon of acid blendlikewise to myChardonnaywith raisins while Suave was done straight up. Although all winesare healthy at this point. But you really have to try adding zest to a wine after primary it really adds a quality of dePth no matter what type of wine.

 

[ibglowin]

OK Joe your not going to get me to ever try and add a "quality of death" to any of my wines I promise you!

But you really have to try adding zest to a wine after primary it really adds a quality of death no matter what type of wine.

 

[joeswine]

I have been tring to use dragon and its fun I went in this morning and corrected that ,still need to proof read a lot but what a cool tool,but still you need to try

I thought for a while I was all alone out here.Thanks for the reply..............

 

[fiat84]

But you really have to try adding zest to a wine after primary it really adds a quality of dePth no matter what type of wine.

Which citrus zests work best in sweet German white 10L kits and how much zest should be added?

 

[joeswine]

Grapefruit zest would work best in your German styles simply because , they will give you the best edge in the finished product, I know i I've tried these before, grapefruit zest seems to provide the best accent or finishing note for most white wines. That's not to say you can't try other ones such as a citrus blend or orange or any combination of, don't be afraid to experiment, that's the fun of wine making.

As to how much to use depends on your volume of wine let's say you have a five or 6 gallon kit I would use two grapefruit to start with, zest and add to the secondary or before clearing will be most effective, the idea behind this is to bring up the background, a tad more acid, which will give you a little more bite, perfect.

 

[joeswine]

remember by using the zest method your influencing the flavor and adding a small dose of citrus acid for the bite...

win win ,can't lose

 

[joeswine]

acetic acid


acetic acid is a two-part carbon organic acid in wine during or after the fermentation. It is the most volatile. Primary acid associated with wine and is responsible for the sour tastein vinegar, during fermentation, activity by yeast cells naturally produces a small amount of acetic acid, if the wine is exposed to oxygen, acebacter bacteria convert ethanol into acetic acid, this process is known as acetificaion, the primary process behind wine degradation into vinegar . excessive amount of these acetic acid is also considered a wine fault . a tasters sensitivity to acetic acid quite keen, most people can detect excessive amounts of excess .\
I stated in the beginning this was going to be a long chapter and verse on acids but how many of you out there have tasted that sour off note somewhat vinegary,test, ( bottle of wine on the shelf too long you have a vinegary taste , here's a little test, open up a bottle of red wine , taste the the bottle ,set it on the counter for a week , then taste, breakdown, taste again . I would bet you're going to taste vinegar or at least the beginning taste of vinegar that it set on the counter another week this time with a cork in it , opened up later and tell me if you don't have vinegar . is not much more to acids we completed the building the body and structure of wine ,are some small acids that take part , will get into them only in brief. I

 

[joeswine]

Happy turkey day everyone see you all Monday

 

[joeswine]

 

[Scott]

Not alot to say today?