Welches (I tried, but...)

[JohnT]

I gave this a "like" if only to salute the proper use of the subjunctive mood!

For a moment, I thought that I might be winning you over to my side.....

 

[sour_grapes]

I gave this a "like" if only to salute the proper use of the subjunctive mood! (Emphasis added)

For a moment, I thought that I might be winning you over to my side.....

John, note that my sentence is not inconsistent with my being on your side. (If I had said "only to salute," that would have been a different matter.)

I have always leaned in your direction. Remember this:

http://www.winemakingtalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=481328&postcount=76

For the record, I have not had Welch's wine yet, so I am not in the pro- or anti- camp yet. However, I recently did have some Concord (or was it Catawba?) wine that I could not finish.

 

[JohnT]

For a moment, I thought that I might be winning you over to my side.....

John, note that my sentence is not inconsistent with my being on your side. (If I had said "only to salute," that would have been a different matter.)

"For a moment".. The time between seeing your "Like" and reading your post...

 

[sour_grapes]

"For a moment".. The time between seeing your "Like" and reading your post...

Ahh, I see.

It's a bit ironical that I chose a fox as my avatar. As I have explained, this is from the "Sour Grapes" fable, but one could (incorrectly) interpret this as my favoring wines from Vitis labrusca (fox grape).

 

[jswordy]

I might as well weigh in on this old thread.

Since I am an AMERICAN and descended from the original AMERICANS (before the place even took on that European-origin name), I have decided to make my wines with AMERICAN grapes. That includes concord, scuppernong, muscadine, Norton, mustang, et al.

European grapes are invasive plants in this country. After much procrastination, I have my last batch of wine with European grape content in the carboys now. I'm all-AMERICAN from here on out.

Obviously, my wines are not "world class," they are inherently inferior and they are sub-standard because they use AMERICAN grapes. I definitely found that out when I entered my AMERICAN wines in coast to coast contests in 2014.



As far as the original, 2014 post about Welch's grape wine, like in all winemaking, it takes an acquired talent to make this wine something that raises the bar. You have to select the correct yeast and learn the process to raise it up.

I have been sent a few bottles of Welch's wine by WMT members for evaluation (many thanks to you all), and I can assure you what I sampled ain't Mogan David or Manischewitz. We have that talent here. The array of tastes and styles from a lowly can of concord concentrate are amazing.

So, it is like anything else. If you put the time in to climb the learning curve, to innovate and adjust, then you improve. If you spit out your first batch and quit at the beginning, you don't.

 

[dralarms]

Jim, that needs a double like.

 

[JohnT]

I might as well weigh in on this old thread.

Since I am an AMERICAN and descended from the original AMERICANS (before the place even took on that European-origin name), I have decided to make my wines with AMERICAN grapes. That includes concord, scuppernong, muscadine, Norton, mustang, et al.

European grapes are invasive plants in this country. After much procrastination, I have my last batch of wine with European grape content in the carboys now. I'm all-AMERICAN from here on out.

Obviously, my wines are not "world class," they are inherently inferior and they are sub-standard because they use AMERICAN grapes. I definitely found that out when I entered my AMERICAN wines in coast to coast contests in 2014.



As far as the original, 2014 post about Welch's grape wine, like in all winemaking, it takes an acquired talent to make this wine something that raises the bar. You have to select the correct yeast and learn the process to raise it up.

I have been sent a few bottles of Welch's wine by WMT members for evaluation (many thanks to you all), and I can assure you what I sampled ain't Mogan David or Manischewitz. We have that talent here. The array of tastes and styles from a lowly can of concord concentrate are amazing.

So, it is like anything else. If you put the time in to climb the learning curve, to innovate and adjust, then you improve. If you spit out your first batch and quit at the beginning, you don't.

All kidding aside, the most important thing is that you are satisfied with it! Via Con Dios Jim!!!!

Congrats on all of your awards.

 

[Elmer]

I might as well weigh in on this old thread.

Since I am an AMERICAN and descended from the original AMERICANS (before the place even took on that European-origin name), I have decided to make my wines with AMERICAN grapes. That includes concord, scuppernong, muscadine, Norton, mustang, et al.

European grapes are invasive plants in this country. After much procrastination, I have my last batch of wine with European grape content in the carboys now. I'm all-AMERICAN from here on out.

Obviously, my wines are not "world class," they are inherently inferior and they are sub-standard because they use AMERICAN grapes. I definitely found that out when I entered my AMERICAN wines in coast to coast contests in 2014.

.

Jim arnt your beers Scottish?

I just want to join in on this American fest!


But I still cant stand Welches!

 

[jswordy]

Jim arnt your beers Scottish?

I just want to join in on this American fest!


But I still cant stand Welches!

I am primarily a winemaker. I dabble in beer. My beers are of Scottish style, yes, as well as AMERICAN (Californian, mostly) and other styles.

Of course, I could have just quit after my first brew, since beer does make my joints ache, but I have decided to keep on the learning curve until I get a great beer that doesn't make my joints ache. Because I know you can't improve unless you go through the process of improvement. And I know improving taste is a learned thing.

 

[joeswine]

What do you make???/

js-- you sound alot like me or me you, what it takes is trial and error and the understanding of the whole wine process,it's not how much wine,or wine you can make it's about what quality of wine your making ,no matter what style wine white, red or fruit you use. I have come to believe that i would rather have the majority like the taste of my product ,then the old statement "well that's how i like my wines" you taste it and you know that the taste profile is wrong ,i know this will upset some but if you can make a wine product it doesn't matter what the base is .THE AWARDS ARE FROM 2015,MARCH 27TH- NO TO TOOT MY OWN HORN BUT THE WINES WERE A MIX OF FRUIT STYLE,PORT STYLE,RED BLEND AND WHITES.THE BASE IS THE KEY THE PROCESS IS THE MEANS TO GET YOU TO A DECENT FINISHED PRODUCT,WORTHY OF YOUR EFFORTS, NOTHING ELSE IS ACCEPTABLE ,ESPECIALLY TO THE WINEMAKERS ON THIS FORUM ,AND I HAVE TASTED ALMOST EVERYONES WINE AT ON TIME OR ANOTHER ,IN THE LAST 8 YEARS..

 

[sour_grapes]

Of course, barley and H. sapiens are invasive species in the Americas, too.

 

[Elmer]

Of course, barley and H. sapiens are invasive species in the Americas, too.

So are horses!

 

[sour_grapes]

So are horses!

Well, yes and no. The history of horse evolution is fascinating. I may have some of this wrong, and in the below I use the term "horse" loosely, but I believe it goes like this:

-the ancestor of horses originated in North America.
-they evolved and spread to Europe and Asia.
-these horses went extinct everywhere except North America.
-these evolved further, and then spread to South America, and (again) to Europe, Africa, and Asia.
-they then went extinct in the Americas. This may be because the first humans in North America (an invasive species) hunted them to extinction (although this is not certain). They remained in Asia, Africa, and Europe.
-Europeans once again introduced them to North America.

So, hard to categorically call them "invasive," huh?

 

[joeswine]

Horses

SOUR GRAPES IS CORRECT.

 

[sour_grapes]

Well, yes and no. The history of horse evolution is fascinating.

blah blah blah

So, hard to categorically call them "invasive," huh?

I wish that I had summarized the timeline in my original post:

-From 55,000,000 years ago until 12,500 years ago: There were horses (or their ancestors) in North America

-From 12,500 years ago until 500 years ago: No horses in North America

-From 500 years ago until now: Horses in North America

Except for one 12,000 year period out of the last 55,000,000, there were horses here. Seems a bit harsh to call them invasive!

 

[JohnT]

I find it inspiring that folks are not afraid to love America. We live in a day and age where some feel that they have to apologize for it. I love this country the way that only a first generation son can.

That being said, let's not forget the real strength of this great country, the fact that America is a melting pot. There are amazingly few aspects of American life that have not originated in other countries or have been influenced by other cultures. Really, think about it...

When it comes to food products, what is purely American? Corn perhaps? Venison?

Take the iconic apple pie for example. That American classic is made from apples (originally from central Asia), Wheat Flour (originated in the near east 10,000 years ago), butter from domesticated cows (that originated in either the fertile crescent or Asia around 5,000 bc), and sugar (that originated in Polynesia and migrated to the Americas through India). Not one ingredient in standard Apple pie is uniquely American.

Not wanting to go on and on, My point is that this country is great because of our ability to embrace being a melting pot. Even our constitution, that definitively American set of common principles and the foundation of our country, was drafted using the ancient Roman republic (the most successful form of government known at the time) as a guideline.

Should one extend the thought and avoid eating bread, pork, beef, chicken, lamb, butter, eggs, milk, tea, coffee, or sugar? I ask, isn't it more AMERICAN to prefer European grapes that have been grafted onto AMERICAN root stock, and grown in AMERICAN soil by AMERICAN farmers?


Jim, I sure hope you take no offense with the above. I debated posting it and really do not want to offend you. I really do respect what you are doing.

 

[Elmer]

I wish that I had summarized the timeline in my original post:

-From 55,000,000 years ago until 12,500 years ago: There were horses (or their ancestors) in North America

-From 12,500 years ago until 500 years ago: No horses in North America

-From 500 years ago until now: Horses in North America

Except for one 12,000 year period out of the last 55,000,000, there were horses here. Seems a bit harsh to call them invasive!

I would disagree. If a animal goes extinct on a land mass, as horses did, This is a sign that they were not meant to survive geologically or environmentally in this area.
The reintroduction of horses to North America is basically upsetting the natural course of events, (that is if you are of the belief that there is a predetermined "natural course" of events).

But then again my planting grapes and hops in my yard could be considered "invasive", I mean neither was there naturally and will continue to grow and spread.

When it comes to food products, what is purely American? Corn perhaps? Venison?

Maybe a BBQ chicken wing!
or
Corn Dog!!!! (i know hot dogs are derived from sausages, which is a frank, which is german. But did they wrap it in corn breading and put it on a stick!!!!!)
'MERICA!!!!!

but I digress!

 

[JohnT]

Elmer..

Yes, the hot dog is just a German type of sausage (the frankfurter was even named after the German city of Frankfurt) and are made from animals not native to America (beef and/or pork). The batter does contain corn, but also contains chicken eggs, cow's milk, and wheat flour (all non native).

As far as the wings, chickens are also not native, nor is most of the ingredients in the BBQ sauce.

Both dishes are American. We did what Americans do best. We took aspects of other cultures and blended them together..


"You will be assimilated. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile"

 

[sour_grapes]

I would disagree. If a animal goes extinct on a land mass, as horses did, This is a sign that they were not meant to survive geologically or environmentally in this area.

What if the extinction was caused by the introduction of a non-native species that outcompeted it?

 

[Elmer]

Elmer..

Yes, the hot dog is just a German type of sausage (the frankfurter was even named after the German city of Frankfurt) and are made from animals not native to America (beef and/or pork). The batter does contain corn, but also contains chicken eggs, cow's milk, and wheat flour (all non native).

As far as the wings, chickens are also not native, nor is most of the ingredients in the BBQ sauce.

Both dishes are American. We did what Americans do best. We took aspects of other cultures and blended them together..


"You will be assimilated. Your biological and technological distinctiveness will be added to our own. Resistance is futile"

I think that is what "America" does best. We take French Toast and make it ours.
We take Chinese food and make it greasy and accessible in "10 minutes".
We have Americanized Pizza, hot dogs and tacos!
About the only true american invention is Blues & Jazz!
We are a melting pot and that is what is great!

What if the extinction was caused by the introduction of a non-native species that outcompeted it?

Still wasnt meant to be, they failed to adapt or survive!
All part of natural selection. I have read my Darwin!