Mosti Mondiale to Cover tightly or not? and Topping up tips?

[Brad Simmons]

OK, to the guys who have made tons of wine 2 questions:

1 - the instructions say loosely cover the primary for the first days - but some of you say seal it tight. What works better and why?

2 - top it up or not? I don;t want to drag up the lees, so I 'short myself' a bit, then the wine doesn't come within 2" of the top as the instructions say. Is this necessary to do? I only top up with wine - but it is not the same flavor profile or quality perhaps, so what to do - or do I need to do this at all?

Brad in KY

 

[ibglowin]

Since you added a grape pack you will want to punch it down several times a day while you are in the vigorous fermenting stage, once it slows down usually day 5 or so you can snap the lid and add the airlock. Since you were late in adding the grape pack and you need to have the pack in contact with the wine as much as possible I would try and keep the temps on the low side so it ferments out slower (70-72) and then towards the end you will just be trying to get the most contact with the wine as possible. You will need to check the SG of course to monitor the progression but plan on going below 1.000 in the bucket to allow the most time in contact with the grape pack.

You don't need to worry about topping up until you rack, degas, add the fining agents etc.. Way down the road. You will want to squeeze the grape pack to get all the goodness you can from it and then transfer it all to the carboy. Everything that doesn't stick to the bottom, transfer it.

When it comes time to top off, do a good clean rack and then pour your leftover lees into another (clear wine bottle). Let the lees settle and then either pour off the wine on top carefully into the carboy after 24 hours settling time or use a small piece of tubing to transfer the wine on top.

Depending on how good you rack you will need either a 750 or 1.5L bottle to hold all the lees/wine mix. Fill it up and stick a cork in it and let it sit for 24 hours to settle. This will make for less topping off.

Pick a similar inexpensive wine to top off with. You may need 2. You can also use clean sanitized marbles to raise the level in the carboy up and eliminate a good portion of the headspace.

 

[vcasey]

The yeast need air so cover loosely, once the SG reaches 1020 stir really well and snap on the lid. I ferment to dry in the primary so I just rock the primary every day if I am using skins or raisins to keep everything wet. This method keeps the yeast stirred up and I have had no problems with the wine finishing also makes degassing much easier. Many wine kit directions will have you sprinkle the yeast and snap down the lid until a week to 10 days or so then they have you start checking the SG.

Several folks will put the lees in another container and after everything settles they gently pour off the wine. When you get to where you need to top off the you can use a like wine, sanitized glass marbles or my favorite trick is to rack to a 5 gallon carboy and the rest in wine bottles or gallon or half gallon jugs.

Keep in mind wine kit mfg. want you to succeed so these kits are pretty hard to screw up.

I'll add you may want to keep your questions on the kit you are currently working on in the thread - makes it easier to follow what you are doing.

 

[Wade E]

I snap down but thats just me. I open it once or twice a day and punch down and stir and that gets plenty of 02 into there.

 

[robie]

I like to just set the lid loosely in place for the first 5 days or so. If you have lots of bugs in Kentucky, place a towel over the lid to keep them out. Even this time of year I find an occasional gnat trying to get into my must.

Don't top off until you have degassed and have started your clearing process.

I'm not sure what you mean by "you shorted". If you didn't add the specified amount of water, you might not want to do that in the future. Experts have determined how much water is necessary for the given amount of grape juice in the kit. If you are worried about running over, get a second fermentor bucket (Most bakeries, like Walmart and Target, have smaller food grade buckets they will give you). I bought a ten-gallon fermentor from George for that very reason.

To add to what Mike said, use a clear bottle for your lees. This way you can better determine where the cleared wine ends and the sediment begins.

 

[Randoneur]

Snap on the lid during primary?? - make sure you do that if there are any fruit flys around, say, if you are doing a kit in summer or fall. This time of year I don't.

 

[Brad Simmons]

I ferment to dry

what does this mean?

 

[fivebk]

It means to let it remain in the bucket untill the SG is below .998 for 2-3 days at the same SG

BOB

 

[robie]

To expand a little on what Bob said, if the wine is fermented to dry, all the fermentable sugar in the original must has been used up or consumed by the yeast, resulting primarily in alcohol and CO2.

If not fermented to dry, some process was utilized to stop the fermentation before all sugar was used up. This can be done on purpose, which results in a wine that still has a residual level of sugar (sweetness). The yeast are killed or filtered out, so no further fermentation takes place.

It can also can become stopped unintentionally, which is the case of a stuck fermentation. For any of several unfortunate reasons the yeast stopped consuming the sugar. In this case it is usually desirable to get the fermentation started again, if at all possible.

Hope this helps.

 

[Brad Simmons]

Bob and Richard - thank you. Good stuff there. I appreciate it.

I'm just still trying to figure out when to snap on the lid - and why and when not to - and why. I don't have a gnat/fruit fly issue (yet).


Why top up? - what happens if you don't. I don't want moldy wine or whatever is going to happen.

 

[ibglowin]

The wine will Oxidize if there is too much head space so either top it up, add marbles to raise the level or rack to a smaller vessel.

Why top up? - what happens if you don't. I don't want moldy wine or whatever is going to happen.

 

[robie]

Bob and Richard - thank you. Good stuff there. I appreciate it.



I'm just still trying to figure out when to snap on the lid - and why and when not to - and why. I don't have a gnat/fruit fly issue (yet).





Why top up? - what happens if you don't. I don't want moldy wine or whatever is going to happen.

Do you feel you have gotten your questions answered to your satisfaction?

 

[Brad Simmons]

Richard et al,

Yes! You guys helped me understand how and more importantly why. Thank you all so much.

Brad

 

[Brad Simmons]

The Cab with the grape pack.....

The primary was about finished when I added the pack (after finding it buried deep)

and left it 4 or 5 extra days - looked and smelled amazing.

Left it in till .996 or .998 (hard to see exactly), then racked it, added yeast nutrient, oak chips and nothing. Nothing. It has been 24 hrs or more and no bubbles, nada.

Did I hump the monkey?

 

[ibglowin]

What was the SG when you added the pack?

 

[Brad Simmons]

I am embarrassed to say I didn't write it down, but I did have bubbles - not rolling volcanoes, but tiny bubbles.

 

[ibglowin]

You racked it to what? Is it in the bucket or carboy? Is it still sitting on the grape pack?

Yeast nutrient gets added at about 1.04. If you added it at 1.000 or less its to late to do much good as there is no food left for the yeast really.

What day are you now. How many days total since you pitched the yeast?

 

[robie]

As Mike said, the yeast nutrient is doing nothing for you, as it was added way too late to feed the yeast. It is still in your wine, so make sure that when the time comes, you use the kit's supplied clearing agent. This way, the nutrient will be cleared as well. What I am trying to say is don't try to allow this wine to clear on its own, without the clearing agent.

When you added the grape pack, the SG would have jumped up by, oh, about .020 more or less. If it is still at an SG of .996 or .998, the yeast have converted the sugar in the grape pack.

I would check the SG and make sure it is at or below your mentioned level of .996 or .998.

Because it was added so late, you are not likely to get the full benefits of the added grape pack, but that's not a big issue. When you remove the grape pack, just be sure to squeeze out as much as you can of this pack's "stuff" into the wine.

Be sure to answer all of Mike's questions from above. He can help you.

 

[Brad Simmons]

Mike, I racked it to a carboy. Primary in bucket, added grape pack late, it didn't do much with that - smelled amazing though.

Then I racked to carboy, added oak chips and its pretty much dead.

I run and travel pretty hard, like we all do, so my days get extended sometimes. 9 turns out to be 12 or 14 sometimes.

We pitched the yeast on Feb 2, so we are at day 18 or so now and I have written down that I need to rack again (to clarify I assume) on the 22nd to 24th.

 

[Brad Simmons]

Richard,

We did squeeze out all the goodness - there was a lot of good stuff in there - seeds, stems, skins, etc. Loved that.

Let me ask you - if it was at 1.000 when I added the grape pack, why could I have not added more yeast? would that have worked?

Still trying to get my head around the science and learn.