White film on top

[sercani]

Hello Everyone,
First time wine maker here, so I probably made some mistakes, I would like to see if my wine is still well and learn from my mistakes for the next year to make it better...

Here is my story:
I have two grape vines in my backyard, I collected the grape bunches in the beginning of September as it was tasting sweet, savory taste I would like to see in my wine as well, they seemed quite ripe to me. I separated the grapes from the branches and leaves then crushed them carefully without breaking the seeds (with the bottom of a glass jar) and without cleaning or washing the grape bunches because I wanted to try the `traditional` way without adding sugar or yeast. I had 12 liters of must in the end and put it into a 25 liters fermenter for the first fermentation. I measured the original gravity as 1.060 SG in the first day, which seemed a bit less than what I read or watched on Youtube but still continued anyways as I didn't have a yeast ready at home. I stirred the must properly every day at least 4-5 times, the measurement started to decrease after 2-3 days by 10s every day, which reached around 1.005-1.000 SG on the day 7. I cleaned up all my gears to be used in the siphoning and racking with Arsegan puro OXI. Then I used a small siphon hose to siphon the juice into the two 5 liters demijohns then pressed the must in a fine cheese cloth then used a filtering funnel to get the rest of the juice into the demijohns. I think I made a mistake here by giving too much airspace by not filling them up to the neck, you can see in the photos of the exact amount. I put the airlocks in the mouth of the bottles and stored them in a dark room. For the first couple of days I could see the water was pressing to the outside part in the airlock, so I could understand there is a pressure in the glass, but I wasn't seeing a whole scene of active bubbles coming out of the locks...After three days of this second stage, I started to see some white particles forming up on top of the wine, now I am in the day 5 after racking, now the white film is almost covering the whole top as you can see from the photos. And the airlocks came to an even position suggesting there is nothing going on inside... I read this forum and many more, watched endless Youtube videos. Some people are suggesting this doesn't necessarily mean there is mold or any toxic stuff in the wine, while some others suggest to dump it immediately...

Now coming to my question after this long story: Could you please check my photos and suggest what to do next? I ordered some Sulfite powder (Campden) and Bentonite (for later stage of clarifying) but I guess it would take another 2-3 days to get the package at home. My plan of attack for now is like this:

• I will top up the demijohns with some store bought wine to float the white film out over the top and put the airlocks again.
• When I receive the sulfite powder cargo, I will siphon the wine from the middle of the demijohns and filter with cheese cloth again into the first fermenter bucket.
• Clean the demijohns with sulfite powder and / or Arsegan puro OXI powder properly on the same day, then siphon the wine from the fermenter into the demijohns again while doing another round of filtering.

This is what I could read and plan to do for now, does it sound like a solid plan? Should I add sulfite powder into the demijohns after doing all of this? If yes, how much of it would be sufficient for 5 liters x 2 ? Should I use bentonite for clarification, and if yes how much and when? Or do the photos suggest indeed there is mold in the wine? Should I dump all of it then cry while drinking a store bought wine ? Lots of questions in my head with lots of worry, would be great if you guys can help me You can see the whole story in the attached photos, and last three are showing the white film on top.

 

[Ohio Bob]

I congratulate you on taking on this endeavor. Your wine is most likely doing fine. Do not dump it.

The SG at initial should have been closer to 1.090, but you are not far off. When your potassium metabisulfite arrives rack (siphon) the wine into a clean/sanitized container. Add 1/4 tsp per 5gallons. Keep the airspace in the vessel to a minimum. Typically people have numerous containers of various volumes for this reason. It won’t be necessary to filter the wine through cheesecloth, time/patience will do the job. Sediment will form and you will rack again in 3 months, adding Kmeta every time you rack.

The pictures you show have way too much airspace, try to keep ~1” or less. I think your wine will be fine. You didn’t mention using a yeast, so is this a natural fermentation? That could be a reason for the white growth. Search this site for opinions on natural fermentation. Good luck.

 

[sercani]

Hello Bob, thanks for the quick answer. Yes, this is a natural fermentation with just wild yeast on the skin of the grapes, I didn't add any yeast and/or sugar in the must. As a first timer, I don't have that much containers of various volumes, but seems like I now become an enthusiast day by day , so in the 2nd try I will most likely have a better / various set of tools. Is Campden another name for the potassium metabisulfite or is it a totally different thing? And if I understood correctly you don't suggest to use bentonite for clarification, only suggesting `wait and see` for the natural process to take place, right?

 

[ChuckD]

Hello Bob, thanks for the quick answer. Yes, this is a natural fermentation with just wild yeast on the skin of the grapes, I didn't add any yeast and/or sugar in the must. As a first timer, I don't have that much containers of various volumes, but seems like I now become an enthusiast day by day , so in the 2nd try I will most likely have a better / various set of tools. Is Campden another name for the potassium metabisulfite or is it a totally different thing? And if I understood correctly you don't suggest to use bentonite for clarification, only suggesting `wait and see` for the natural process to take place, right?

Campden is potassium meta-bisulfite (kmeta) in tablet form. From now on just order packets of Kmeta.

When I had mold growing on my wine I carefully wicked it out with paper towels then wiped the inside of the carboy neck with a Q-tip soaked in Kmeta solution. Then I spritzed the wine and neck of the carboy with a spray bottle of Kmeta solution and installed a fresh airlock. It was successful

 

[Cynewulf]

Like the others said, don’t panic, but do top the carboys up as soon as you can. I generally get a white film on top of my wine every year but no longer worry about it and leave it alone until I’m racking or bottling. I will disagree with one of the previous posts that you need to rack every three months. I only rack twice: once a few days after pressing, and a second time about two weeks before bottling. Many others here follow a similar schedule, or are reducing the number of times they rack. I don’t think there is a benefit to additional rackings and you would be introducing oxygen to what is a small volume of wine. Congrats on your harvest and first wine!

 

[Rice_Guy]

Welcome to Wine Making Talk.

* 1.060 is low for fully ripe grape. In the scheme of things you will have a low finished alcohol 8.2% and the stability is closer to a beer. Once you are over 5% we don’t worry about food poisoning. ,,, you could add table sugar next time.
* making vinegar is a risk, the organism that makes vinegar needs oxygen to grow, therefore you are better to have one full 5 liter container and a soda bottle etc with the left over wine. ,,, a low tech way to do an air lock is a balloon over the mouth.
* I have used the wipe with paper towel ,,, then add 0.30gm/ five liter metabisulphite powder ,,, then slowly add 20ml of grain alcohol to try building a toxic high alcohol area.
* if you refrigerate like beers get you can prevent all infection risk. You will still have chemical oxidation so metabisulphite is helpful

 

[Donnab1045]

Hello Everyone,
First time wine maker here, so I probably made some mistakes, I would like to see if my wine is still well and learn from my mistakes for the next year to make it better...

Here is my story:
I have two grape vines in my backyard, I collected the grape bunches in the beginning of September as it was tasting sweet, savory taste I would like to see in my wine as well, they seemed quite ripe to me. I separated the grapes from the branches and leaves then crushed them carefully without breaking the seeds (with the bottom of a glass jar) and without cleaning or washing the grape bunches because I wanted to try the `traditional` way without adding sugar or yeast. I had 12 liters of must in the end and put it into a 25 liters fermenter for the first fermentation. I measured the original gravity as 1.060 SG in the first day, which seemed a bit less than what I read or watched on Youtube but still continued anyways as I didn't have a yeast ready at home. I stirred the must properly every day at least 4-5 times, the measurement started to decrease after 2-3 days by 10s every day, which reached around 1.005-1.000 SG on the day 7. I cleaned up all my gears to be used in the siphoning and racking with Arsegan puro OXI. Then I used a small siphon hose to siphon the juice into the two 5 liters demijohns then pressed the must in a fine cheese cloth then used a filtering funnel to get the rest of the juice into the demijohns. I think I made a mistake here by giving too much airspace by not filling them up to the neck, you can see in the photos of the exact amount. I put the airlocks in the mouth of the bottles and stored them in a dark room. For the first couple of days I could see the water was pressing to the outside part in the airlock, so I could understand there is a pressure in the glass, but I wasn't seeing a whole scene of active bubbles coming out of the locks...After three days of this second stage, I started to see some white particles forming up on top of the wine, now I am in the day 5 after racking, now the white film is almost covering the whole top as you can see from the photos. And the airlocks came to an even position suggesting there is nothing going on inside... I read this forum and many more, watched endless Youtube videos. Some people are suggesting this doesn't necessarily mean there is mold or any toxic stuff in the wine, while some others suggest to dump it immediately...

Now coming to my question after this long story: Could you please check my photos and suggest what to do next? I ordered some Sulfite powder (Campden) and Bentonite (for later stage of clarifying) but I guess it would take another 2-3 days to get the package at home. My plan of attack for now is like this:

• I will top up the demijohns with some store bought wine to float the white film out over the top and put the airlocks again.
• When I receive the sulfite powder cargo, I will siphon the wine from the middle of the demijohns and filter with cheese cloth again into the first fermenter bucket.
• Clean the demijohns with sulfite powder and / or Arsegan puro OXI powder properly on the same day, then siphon the wine from the fermenter into the demijohns again while doing another round of filtering.

This is what I could read and plan to do for now, does it sound like a solid plan? Should I add sulfite powder into the demijohns after doing all of this? If yes, how much of it would be sufficient for 5 liters x 2 ? Should I use bentonite for clarification, and if yes how much and when? Or do the photos suggest indeed there is mold in the wine? Should I dump all of it then cry while drinking a store bought wine ? Lots of questions in my head with lots of worry, would be great if you guys can help me You can see the whole story in the attached photos, and last three are showing the white film on top.

 

[Donnab1045]

Sercani,

All good advice re the film. As far as adding bentonite I would advise against it for a red. All of my reds over time settle out any solids. Let time work its magic, ie 12-14 months.