Aging
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Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
Saw this on bulk aging vs bottle aging from Tim Vandergrift who is the Technical Services Manager of Winexpert Limited and thought I would share it...
<DIV ="postcolor">"Everybody repeat after me:
There is no difference between bulk ageing and bottle ageing!
When the wine is stable (finished fermenting, clear, at an appropriate sulphite level) it ages as well in a bottle as it does in a carboy.
I've gotten just as many gold medals with bottle-aged as with bulk-aged wines. "Edited by: masta
<DIV ="postcolor">"Everybody repeat after me:
There is no difference between bulk ageing and bottle ageing!
When the wine is stable (finished fermenting, clear, at an appropriate sulphite level) it ages as well in a bottle as it does in a carboy.
I've gotten just as many gold medals with bottle-aged as with bulk-aged wines. "Edited by: masta
MedPretzel
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I agree. I like knowing that I have lots of bottled wine. It just makes it so much easier if an unexpected guest shows up. Then I have at least a variety to choose from.
MedPretzel
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Does the oak taste come out even more by aging, or only when you've got the oak beans/chips/whatever in the carboy?
When I read Tim Vandergrift’s comment, as well as his previous comments on bulk aging, I always read them in the context of kit wine making. After all, kit manufacturers have designed a product to get into the bottle in six to eight weeks.<?
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Although it seems that every book I can recall reading recommends bulk aging, I am beginning to think Tim’s comment may also apply to scratch wines. It does take longer for a scratch wine to reach stability than a kit wine. Perhaps it’s a matter of definition (early part of bulk aging actually being stabilization). I have always bulk aged my scratch wines after they were stable. Do others do this, or do they bottle when stable?
I understand the benefit of bulk aging in an oak barrel or when using oak chips/cubes. Beyond this, is there any benefit to the winemaker to bulk age in glass? Are there any chemical reactions that occur in bulk that do to occur in the bottle? Do scratch wines require more time for a blending of complex components? Has anyone done an experiment comparing the taste of a scratch wine bottled when stable and one bulk aged?
I would appreciate any thoughts, comments and opinions on this. Maybe I can bottle my scratch wines a littlesooner.
amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />Although it seems that every book I can recall reading recommends bulk aging, I am beginning to think Tim’s comment may also apply to scratch wines. It does take longer for a scratch wine to reach stability than a kit wine. Perhaps it’s a matter of definition (early part of bulk aging actually being stabilization). I have always bulk aged my scratch wines after they were stable. Do others do this, or do they bottle when stable?
I understand the benefit of bulk aging in an oak barrel or when using oak chips/cubes. Beyond this, is there any benefit to the winemaker to bulk age in glass? Are there any chemical reactions that occur in bulk that do to occur in the bottle? Do scratch wines require more time for a blending of complex components? Has anyone done an experiment comparing the taste of a scratch wine bottled when stable and one bulk aged?
I would appreciate any thoughts, comments and opinions on this. Maybe I can bottle my scratch wines a littlesooner.
The only thang I can see how bulk aging, after oaking and being sure the wine is stable, is beneficial, isthat the carboy of wine will all age at the same rate, while bottles might be subject to individual temp swings, vibration, noise, light, etc. Edited by: Country Wine
MedPretzel
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I think Country is right on this one. This is what I have understood to be true as well.
I have a great deal of respect for Tim Vandergrift...no one knows more about making excellent kit wines than Tim. And I am not an "expert" on winemaking in general by any measure, BUT...wine made from scratch from grapes will age MUCH more slowly in bulk than in a bottle. After a few years, there is a noticable difference in wines in a magnum (1.5 lt) vs in a .75 lt bottle. As I understand it...based on reading folks who apparently understand such things, it has to do with the ratio of wine exposed to oxygen over time...that left in the bottle @ corking plus the slow exchange through the cork that occurs. It would seem to follow logically then that wine in a 6 gallon container would age more slowly yet.
John, Welcome to the forum and thanks for your comments. I am certainly no expert on wine making; I am a newbie trying to understand what is going on with my wine.<?amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />
Tim’s comments raised questions in my mind regarding bulk aging. I have read in several places that wine benefits from bulk aging, but no explanation as to how it benefits. Since my post, I have done some research on aging to see if I can gain an understanding of what is happening to my wine.
In general there are two phases to the aging process: oxidative aging and reductive aging. Oxidative aging occurs between fermentation and bottling. Reductive aging begins once the wine is in the bottle. Both phases are necessary.
During oxidative (bulk) aging, the wine is in contact with a small amount of oxygen. This occurs as part of the winemaking process at racking, testing, tasting, fining, filtering and bottling. This contact with oxygen results in a number of chemical reactions, such as polymerization of tannin and pigment, stabilization of color and a reduction in volatile esters. In addition to the ongoing chemical reactions, the wine maker may undertake stylistic actions (sur lie aging, aging in oak or with oak chips). Bulk aging also allows time for the fruit particles to fall out of suspension
During reductive aging, the wine is in the bottle and no longer in contact with oxygen. The oxygen present at bottling will bind with the SO2. The chemical reactions occurring in the bottle begin to develop the wine’s bouquet. Eventually, there will be a slow exchange of oxygen through the cork. As John pointed out, because of the smaller ratio of headspace to wine, a wine bottled in 1.5L bottles will age slower than one in 750ml bottles.
It may be that kit wines are manufactured so that the chemical reactions during bulk aging either do not occur or the occurrence is insignificant. This may be the reason that bulk aging would not be necessary. Although it seems logical, I do not know if this is the case. Perhaps someone else on the forum does know. If the wine maker departs from the instructions by adding tannin or additional sugar to the must, or makes stylistic changes, bulk aging a kit wine would be necessary.
To answer some of my own questions from my previous post: the chemical reactions that occur during bulk aging are different than the reactions during bottle aging. This process takes longer for scratch wines than for kit wines. As John had indicated, the larger the container the more time required. Bulk aging beyond that required may be done if cellar conditions are unfavorable as Country Wine pointed out. Since bulk aging is required for a wine to become stable, there can be no experiment comparing a scratch wine bottled when stable to one bulk aged. To complete the aging process, the wine has to spend time in a bottle.
I think I’m beginning to understand.
amespace prefix = o ns = "urnchemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" />Tim’s comments raised questions in my mind regarding bulk aging. I have read in several places that wine benefits from bulk aging, but no explanation as to how it benefits. Since my post, I have done some research on aging to see if I can gain an understanding of what is happening to my wine.
In general there are two phases to the aging process: oxidative aging and reductive aging. Oxidative aging occurs between fermentation and bottling. Reductive aging begins once the wine is in the bottle. Both phases are necessary.
During oxidative (bulk) aging, the wine is in contact with a small amount of oxygen. This occurs as part of the winemaking process at racking, testing, tasting, fining, filtering and bottling. This contact with oxygen results in a number of chemical reactions, such as polymerization of tannin and pigment, stabilization of color and a reduction in volatile esters. In addition to the ongoing chemical reactions, the wine maker may undertake stylistic actions (sur lie aging, aging in oak or with oak chips). Bulk aging also allows time for the fruit particles to fall out of suspension
During reductive aging, the wine is in the bottle and no longer in contact with oxygen. The oxygen present at bottling will bind with the SO2. The chemical reactions occurring in the bottle begin to develop the wine’s bouquet. Eventually, there will be a slow exchange of oxygen through the cork. As John pointed out, because of the smaller ratio of headspace to wine, a wine bottled in 1.5L bottles will age slower than one in 750ml bottles.
It may be that kit wines are manufactured so that the chemical reactions during bulk aging either do not occur or the occurrence is insignificant. This may be the reason that bulk aging would not be necessary. Although it seems logical, I do not know if this is the case. Perhaps someone else on the forum does know. If the wine maker departs from the instructions by adding tannin or additional sugar to the must, or makes stylistic changes, bulk aging a kit wine would be necessary.
To answer some of my own questions from my previous post: the chemical reactions that occur during bulk aging are different than the reactions during bottle aging. This process takes longer for scratch wines than for kit wines. As John had indicated, the larger the container the more time required. Bulk aging beyond that required may be done if cellar conditions are unfavorable as Country Wine pointed out. Since bulk aging is required for a wine to become stable, there can be no experiment comparing a scratch wine bottled when stable to one bulk aged. To complete the aging process, the wine has to spend time in a bottle.
I think I’m beginning to understand.
