Other Vineco kits

[sangwitch]

anyone every try the vineco kits? I see in the "Top 100 kits" article that they scored with some of the best kits. In fact, they have the #1 slot with their KenRidge Showcase Italian Amarone.


curious if anyone has tried the kits and what they thought.

 

[geocorn]

Vineco kits are only available in the U.S. from E.C. Kraus. The same parent company, Andre's Vineyards, owns both Winexpert and Vineco. It seems that when Andre's bought one of them, they decided to not offer the Vineco product to U.S. markets. Kraus was grandfathered in and so they are the only U.S. Retailer.

 

[sangwitch]

Interesting. I'm not sure I've ever heard of the company until I read the article. I recognized the ads, but just never paid much attention to them in the past. I have this loyalty gene so I pretty much only look at WE kits. Only recently have I ventured out and tried RJS. Edited by: sangwitch

 

[Wade E]

EC Krause is very expensive, but they are good at emailing back info
like George. That is where I got the idea to back sweeten with juice
and emailed them to see if it was alright. They did get back to me
promptly saying it was a good idea! They have free shipping on
purchases over $25.00 but if you look at the prices, that is already
figuered in and then some!

Edited by: wade

 

[ScubaDon]

Evening Wade,
Did you post information on this forum about back sweetening with juice back when you learned to do it? Would like to read about it if the information is still out there.

 

[Wade E]

Hi scuba, because I was making Vintners Harvest wine base wines and
diluting the kit a little bit farther than they recommended I wanted to
makesure the flavor did not get lost and that is why I do this. These
Wine bases were designed for 3 or 5 gallon batches and I turned them
into 6 gallon batches by adding more water and sugar. I dont know if
anybody else besides me and Nothern Wino had this problem but when
making this kit to 5 gallon recipe, it seems to come out big anyway.
What I do is take a all natural juice from a health store only because
these juices are not watered down like grocery store juices are and put
them in a sanitized pot on the stove on medium high and simmer down
like you would reduce a broth to make soup. I usually start with 1/2 a
gallon and reduce down to 1/3 its original size. What this does is keep
all the sugar and concentrate the flavor so that it is thicker and more
powerful. This way i can sweeten and add more flavor without diluting
the Abv to much.

 

[PeterZ]

You know, a pressure cooker with a vacuum pump would be, on a small scale, what the kit makers do to create syrup. With a good vacuum you could probably boil water off at less than 125F.

 

[bmorosco]

Vineco kits are only available in the U.S. from E.C. Kraus. The same parent company, Andre's Vineyards, owns both Winexpert and Vineco. It seems that when Andre's bought one of them, they decided to not offer the Vineco product to U.S. markets. Kraus was grandfathered in and so they are the only U.S. Retailer.

Is that the definition of a MONOPOLY????

 

[bmorosco]

You know, a pressure cooker with a vacuum pump would be, on a small scale, what the kit makers do to create syrup. With a good vacuum you could probably boil water off at less than 125F.

Peter can you explain that just a little further...I am intrested in that process...Thanks Benny

 

[sangwitch]

I bought my wife a pressure cooker for Christmas. We got it to use for canning, but I like this other use that PeterZ is pointing out.

 

[laneygirl]

I didn't see Vineco or Winexpert listed on ECKrauss.


Where did you see the list of the top 100 kits? Is there a link?


Thanks.

 

[geocorn]

All of the EC Kraus kits are made by Vineco.

 

[JWMINNESOTA]

I would find it hard to believe there quality is any better, or even as good as the MM kits. There prices are definitely allot higher, even with the "free" shipping!

 

[PeterZ]

We all know that water boils at 212F, right. Well, that's only pure water at 1 atmosphere (14.7 psia). Add sugar to the water, the boiling point goes up. Increase pressure, boiling point goes up. That's why a pressure cooker cooks faster - the water is boiling at a higher temperature.

To turn grape juice into concentrate we could boil it, but the high temp doesn't do much for the flavor. However, if we can pull a near vacuum in the boiling vessel the juice will boil at a much lower temperature. This does far less damage to the juice. You can get the juice to boil out a substantial part of the water at 125F if you can maintain the vacuum.

This would take some pretty expensive equipment for us. You have to maintain the vacuum to keep the temp down, and that means removing the water vapor as fast as it forms from boiling. I have used a $200 vacuum pump to pull the air out of automotive AC systems prior to recharging, and I don't think they are nearly powerful enough. Perhaps if I re-piped my air compressor in my shop to pull vacuum instead of compress air it would work.

I think I'll keep the compressor for its intended purpose - brad nailers.

 

[summersolstice]

Vineco kits are only available in the U.S. from E.C. Kraus. The same parent company, Andre's Vineyards, owns both Winexpert and Vineco. It seems that when Andre's bought one of them, they decided to not offer the Vineco product to U.S. markets. Kraus was grandfathered in and so they are the only U.S. Retailer.

I just read in the new issue of WineMaker magazine that L D Carlson will be marketing Vineco kits beginning January 2008.

 

[geocorn]

I saw that as well. Will have to re-think my strategies regarding which wine kits to sell. Any suggestions?

 

[summersolstice]

A lot of people seem very happy with Vineco, and they seem to win several awards each year in the annual WineMaker magaizine amatuer winemaking contest. I don't have any personal experience with them but I do know that I love the Cellar Craft kits and have made quite a few of them. I'm not as impressed with the quality of the Heron Bay kitsbut the prices are right andI like the fact that they're willing tointroduce new products like the stand alone grape packs (three of which I recently ordered).

 

[Wade E]

I asked Tim Vandergrift(Tech Manager for Winexpert) about selling these grape skin kits and he said he would not as they spend a lot of time choosing which kits these will work with and not work with. He said that a lot of the results were not good using these packs in kits not designed for them as I was very interested in them also. So if you do mix in a pack with a kit not designed for it you have been fore warned.

 

[summersolstice]

I asked Tim Vandergrift(Tech Manager for Winexpert) about selling these grape skin kits and he said he would not as they spend a lot of time choosing which kits these will work with and not work with. He said that a lot of the results were not good using these packs in kits not designed for them as I was very interested in them also. So if you do mix in a pack with a kit not designed for it you have been fore warned.

Wade, I saw your post and read Tim's reply. Home winemakers typically add ordinary Sunmaid raisins, and even bananas,to kits in an attempt to provide more body. We've taken grape packs from kits after fermentation and used them in new kits without grape packs. We've added raisins, fresh grapes,and other things in an effort to improve our country wines. We're tinkerers, plain and simple. Iknow that home winemakers have long requested the option of buying individual V.vinifera grape packs. It's too bad a kit manufacturer thinks we're too unsophisticated toattempt our own trials.


I ordered the Heron Bay grape packs as soon as they became available and I know of several others who have as well. Ipredict these will turn out tobe very popular items.

 

[Dean]

I find that Tim's comments on this are quite interesting. On one hand, he states that we should not play with the kits for fear of ruining them, then on the other hand, he states that if you use a kit on a second run (over your already pressed grapes/pommace, that you can make a better wine out of the second run!

I know Tim has more wine knowledge in his baby finger than most of us will ever know, but sometimes the "marketing monster" emerges, and he tows the company line. I can't blame him for that, but I always seriously consider what he says out of respect, then make my own decisions. In Canada, vinifera raisins can be purchased and are frequently used in kits here. Mostly the results you get from them are quite positive in lower end kits. I think in high end kits, the results are more subtle, but they still usually alter the kits for the better.