Niagara not doing anything?

[Ebonheart]

Ok, I had a friend getting a shipment of Niagara, and had some extra 5 gallon buckets of Lake Erie juice. It came in on a pallet Saturday, and I picked it up same day. I had a friend interested in winemaking, so I showed him the basics that night, checking sugar levels (sold at 21 brix, confirmed at 1.08+ on the hydrometer) and pitched the montract yeast. Dropped yeast nutrient as well. 5 gallon bucket, covered with cheesecloth, for primary. It's been a few days, and there's been no noticable change or fermentation activity. It's been rather cold here, so I suspect it's just still too cold to get primary fermentation going? I should have waiting a while to toss the yeast, but I wanted to walk through the steps with my friend. I've decided move it near a hot air vent, hoping to warm it up. Everything sound ok so far? By now my first ever batches of Baco and Dechaunac sounded like alkaseltzer by now. The weather was much warmer then, though.

 

[Ebonheart]

Oh, additional notes. Yeast was activated in 90 degree water, and left sat for 10 minutes. The first room was between 60-65, though I needed a heater to maintain that. Current room is 70, pretty much what I have the thermostat at all the time.

 

[Julie]

If got it to warm up to 70 it should take off, make sure you are giving it a good stir at least once a day but twice would be great.

 

[Runningwolf]

I bet your S02 is about 75ppm. Just adding yeast to warm water doesn't do anything. You need to have nutrients in the water and then slowly add juice to the starter. What was the temp of the juice when you added the yeast? It's likely you shocked the yeast and killed off part of it from stress. Still, as Julie get it warmed up and there is probably enough cells left to get it going.

 

[cpfan]

ebonheart:

I don't see an updated sg reading in your comments. It is possible that you have a "stealth fermentation" going on. Check the sg.

Steve

 

[Arne]

And with the advent of cold weather, keep it off of concrete floors. The concrete will sap the heat out of your must. If you have it on the floor, make sure you set it on a board or two to keep it off the concrete. Also if it is on the floor, the temp. is liable to be 5 degrees or more lower than it is by your thermometer unless you have it down by the carboy. If you have it up on a table, things change, the higher your must is in the room, the warmer it is. Arne.

 

[ffemt128]

Make sure you give it a stir every day as well. Last year I had a batch of wine that was not starting. I splash racked it several times to drive off the SO2 on a recommendation of Runningwolf. Next day it was off and running.

 

[Ebonheart]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! I'll grab a SG when I get home. I'm going through in my head all the differences between in first ever winemaking batches from last month and this one.

Last month, the buckets were used and clean, but not vacuum sealed. I treated with K-meta, and waited 24 hours until it cleared and warmed, then made and dropped the yeast. This time, the buckets were fresh off the truck, pre-treated with K-meta, and vacuum sealed. I only waited an hour after opening the seal before dropping the yeast. A: The juice wasn't warm enough (it was in the 50s), and B: I probably didn't wait long enough for the K-meta to disperse (runningwolf made me think of that). I may have killed the yeast with it. It's still VERY clear, and I can see to the bottom still.

Solutions? I'm warming it now. It should be ambient room temperature soon. I'm going to stop on the way home and get a bucket thermometer, just to be sure from now on (Lucky enough to have 2 different homebrewing places local, including one a mile from my house). Should I consider grabbing another packet of yeast? I'll check SG first, but considering the clarity of the juice, I doubt we have much fermentation going. Is there any downside to dropping more yeast?

The biggest lesson I've learned so far about winemaking? Patience is a must, almost to the point of procrastination. Wait until all of the elements are optimal before doing anything. I did that on my first batches, but not on this one.

 

[DoctorCAD]

Air temp really means nothing, you need to read the temperature of the must.

A brew belt would warm up the must to the right temperature, but it takes a while to change the temperature that mass of cold liquid. Once it is up to temp, stir the old yeast up and see what happens. Picking up an extra pack of yeast can't hurt, keep it in your fridge just in-case.

 

[Runningwolf]

Ebonheart, Pick up some ec 1118 yeast. Do not pitch it until your juice is at least 59*. No need to wait untill it gets above that but if it is in the mid 60"s thats even better. Do not add any meta. I never add meta to any pail of juice I purchase. If you make a good yeast starter (we can talk about these before you purchase another pail) it will quickly become dominate and take over any wild yeast. All great advice in upper posts.

 

[Ebonheart]

Ok, SG was at 1.08ish. Temperature is now 70 (though it dropped to 65 overnight). I went ahead and hydrated a new yeast packet. I then drew some juice and put it in the yeast. After a few hours I had a decent amount of foaming, so I suspect that the yeast was happy enough. I then dropped the yeast in the bucket. Nothing vigorous this morning, but it's been less than 12 hours. I do notice that the juice is now beginning to cloud up. Hopefully all is well.

I think my house, specifically my winemaking area and wine room, aren't warm enough in the late fall and winter months (40-55 degrees generally). I may have to restrict my winemaking to early fall and late spring, unless I can convince the wife to put up with a bucket near a heater vent once in a while, lol.

 

[reefman]

My wine cellar is the same....very cool in the winter. As was mentioned in another post, use brew belts to keep things warm. I do as well.
If you have Walkers Juice, I did a Niagara batch two years ago, and I have about 2 bottles left. My wife loves the stuff now that it has aged a little. I'm going to order another Hotpack in the next few weeks. I looked at my notes for this batch, and it did ferment slow, with no foam head. It also was a problem to get this batch to clear. Let us know how it goes.

 

[Ebonheart]

My wine cellar is the same....very cool in the winter. As was mentioned in another post, use brew belts to keep things warm. I do as well.
If you have Walkers Juice, I did a Niagara batch two years ago, and I have about 2 bottles left. My wife loves the stuff now that it has aged a little. I'm going to order another Hotpack in the next few weeks. I looked at my notes for this batch, and it did ferment slow, with no foam head. It also was a problem to get this batch to clear. Let us know how it goes.

It's Arundels, about an hour from Walkers. Thanks for the notes, first white, just a little skittish with it now. Just curious. How much does Walkers charge to ship a hot pack? I have a friend willing to go halves on hot packs and learn along with me.

Anyone else know a place that ships whole juice?

 

[reefman]

That was my first ever batch of wine.
A bucket of Walkers Niagara if I recall correctly was about $60 or $70 delivered to my location.
I'm just North of Baltimore in Port Deposit.

 

[reefman]

Just found my old receipt. The shipping cost was $27.00. Niagara Hotpack Juice bucket was $36.25 at the time.
The date was December 27, 2010

 

[Runningwolf]

It's Arundels, about an hour from Walkers. Thanks for the notes, first white, just a little skittish with it now. Just curious. How much does Walkers charge to ship a hot pack? I have a friend willing to go halves on hot packs and learn along with me.

Anyone else know a place that ships whole juice?

You live too close to be paying for shipping. Make it a road trip and buy enough to make it worth your while. Besides shipping you're paying another $15 for the hot pack. Bring your own containers and save. There are several other members from Pittsburgh that make regular trips up this way to buy juice. Plus keep in mind many wineries in North East (which is an hour closer) sell fresh juice during harvest.

 

[reefman]

Dan,
Do they sell just juice off season that's not hot pack?

 

[Runningwolf]

Doug are talking about Walkers? As long as they have a lot in their tanks you can buy it in bulk. As the tanks sell down they hot the juice before it starts to ferment, spoil or if they just need the tank space.

The wineries mostly sell juice just during harvest season then ferment anything left for themselves. Some wineries will continue to sell some of the juice as young wine once it starts fermenting.

 

[reefman]

Thanks, I was talking about Walkers, and if I can arrange a trip up to St. Marys during hunting season, I may take a run up there.

ps...by the way, I belong to the Maryland Pyro technicians club, and they discovered cheap Rice Hulls at Presque Isle. Isn't that your Winery?

 

[Runningwolf]

Thanks, I was talking about Walkers, and if I can arrange a trip up to St. Marys during hunting season, I may take a run up there.

ps...by the way, I belong to the Maryland Pyro technicians club, and they discovered cheap Rice Hulls at Presque Isle. Isn't that your Winery?

Yes I am the winemaker there. We have tons of rice hulls. What do you guys use them for?