help!

[rosa6329]

so my grand cru cab kit is done. I racked it the first time and topped it off with one bottle of cab and 3 more bottles of water. I didnt think I needed that much to top it off. For some odd reason why I racked it the first time the wine level was really low. According to the instructions it said to top it off with water not with another wine. But I feel as if its going to make the wine weaker. So i topped it off with 1 cab and 3 bottles of water. I re racked it again and i stayed away from the sediments and now my wine level is low again. Looks like I need another 2 bottles of wine to make the wine level 2 inches below the bung. Should I just add water or go buy more wine to top it off???? Or should I just leave the wine level where it is. Right now its at the shoulders of the carboy. Its ready to sit and age.

 

[robie]

Once the wine is out of secondary fermentation, it must be topped off.
Use a like-wine to top off. This debate about topping off with water has gone on for a long time. Never use water.

If you will save your sediment in a sanitized, sealed, clear container, which is just large enough to hold the sediment, the sediment will settle out in a week or less. When it does, you can use a sanitized turkey baster to suck the clear wine off the top of the sediment and save a lot of your wine over the course of a batch of wine.

With each racking, you can easily save a full bottle of wine or more, depending of course on how close you get to the sediment before you shut off the siphon.

Hobby Lobby sells snap-down sealable glass jars in several sizes. Buy three or four sizes to have on hand for different amounts of sediment. You need different sizes, so you don't try putting a little bit of sediment in a great big jar, which will allow too much head space for air.

 

[rosa6329]

Once the wine is out of secondary fermentation, it must be topped off.
Use a like-wine to top off. This debate about topping off with water has gone on for a long time. Never use water.

If you will save your sediment in a sanitized, sealed, clear container, which is just large enough to hold the sediment, the sediment will settle out in a week or less. When it does, you can use a sanitized turkey baster to suck the clear wine off the top of the sediment and save a lot of your wine over the course of a batch of wine.

With each racking, you can easily save a full bottle of wine or more, depending of course on how close you get to the sediment before you shut off the siphon.

Hobby Lobby sells snap-down sealable glass jars in several sizes. Buy three or four sizes to have on hand for different amounts of sediment. You need different sizes, so you don't try putting a little bit of sediment in a great big jar, which will allow too much head space for air.

ok but the sediments are gone. So what should i do? The instructions say top off with water though? why would it say that if many people dont like this? CAn there be a lot of air during aging?

 

[ibglowin]

No, you need to top it up to within 2-3 inches for aging. Since you already added 3 bottles of water you had best top off with a similar cheap (Trader Joes cheap) type wine. As you get better at racking etc you will need less wine to top off with.

 

[robie]

Rosa,


As Mike said, you will get better at racking as time goes by.

You will need to rack 3 or maybe 4 times (sometimes more) before the wine is in the bottle. On the racking between primary and secondary and the one following, which is to rack so the wine can clear, it is not a big problem if you suck up a little bit of sediment. It is the final racking before bottling that you really want to avoid all sediment completely.

When racking between primary and secondary, if you get a little sediment it doesn't really matter. Keep the siphon tube off the bottom until the last minute. When you see sediment coming up the tube, stop siphoning. Don't sweat a little sediment at this stage. Some of us will tilt the carboy, so the wine level will be higher. They sell wedges you can put under your carboy to keep it safely tilted while you rack.

On the second racking, which is to clear, similarly, keep the racking tube off the bottom until the wine level gets very close to the bottom. Watch the tube carefully; when you see the smallest amount of sediment being sucked into the tube, immediately raise the tube out of the wine to stop siphoning.

The idea is each time you rack, you may get a little sediment, but each time you rack, you will have less sediment to suck up the next time.

 

[rosa6329]

Rosa,


As Mike said, you will get better at racking as time goes by.

You will need to rack 3 or maybe 4 times (sometimes more) before the wine is in the bottle. On the racking between primary and secondary and the one following, which is to rack so the wine can clear, it is not a big problem if you suck up a little bit of sediment. It is the final racking before bottling that you really want to avoid all sediment completely.

When racking between primary and secondary, if you get a little sediment it doesn't really matter. Keep the siphon tube off the bottom until the last minute. When you see sediment coming up the tube, stop siphoning. Don't sweat a little sediment at this stage. Some of us will tilt the carboy, so the wine level will be higher. They sell wedges you can put under your carboy to keep it safely tilted while you rack.

On the second racking, which is to clear, similarly, keep the racking tube off the bottom until the wine level gets very close to the bottom. Watch the tube carefully; when you see the smallest amount of sediment being sucked into the tube, immediately raise the tube out of the wine to stop siphoning.

The idea is each time you rack, you may get a little sediment, but each time you rack, you will have less sediment to suck up the next time.

perfect thanks!

 

[Dugger]

ok but the sediments are gone. So what should i do? The instructions say top off with water though? why would it say that if many people dont like this? CAn there be a lot of air during aging?

Both WinExpert and RJ Spagnols have designed their kits to allow for the addition of water to top up after stabilization - 4% or 920 ml for WinExpert and , I believe, about 800 ml or so with Spagnols. Other kit makers may do the same but I'm not familiar with them.
As Robie said, this debate has gone on for a long time. Many strongly argue against adding water; some others support the practice. I personally top up with wine but that is because I have lots of wine to use for that, since I've been making it for a long time. For someone starting out and with limited spare wine to do this, adding water within the specified limits should not, in my humble opinion, alter the intended characteristics of the wine. Similarly, topping up with wine shouldn't make a difference either within those same limits. However, adding wine rather than water just seems better so I think that's why most of us prefer to do this. There may be some empirical data about the pros and cons of water vs wine somewhere but I'm not aware of it.
What I have learned to do over the years, however, is to reduce the amount of top up required and there are many ways to do this, such as not being afraid to carry over sediment, as Robie mentions, using successively smaller receiving carboys, using marbles to occupy volume and probably other methods.
I really don't intend this to prolong the debate, but rosa asked why water is mentioned in the instructions and I wanted to hopefully answer that.

 

[rosa6329]

Both WinExpert and RJ Spagnols have designed their kits to allow for the addition of water to top up after stabilization - 4% or 920 ml for WinExpert and , I believe, about 800 ml or so with Spagnols. Other kit makers may do the same but I'm not familiar with them.
As Robie said, this debate has gone on for a long time. Many strongly argue against adding water; some others support the practice. I personally top up with wine but that is because I have lots of wine to use for that, since I've been making it for a long time. For someone starting out and with limited spare wine to do this, adding water within the specified limits should not, in my humble opinion, alter the intended characteristics of the wine. Similarly, topping up with wine shouldn't make a difference either within those same limits. However, adding wine rather than water just seems better so I think that's why most of us prefer to do this. There may be some empirical data about the pros and cons of water vs wine somewhere but I'm not aware of it.
What I have learned to do over the years, however, is to reduce the amount of top up required and there are many ways to do this, such as not being afraid to carry over sediment, as Robie mentions, using successively smaller receiving carboys, using marbles to occupy volume and probably other methods.
I really don't intend this to prolong the debate, but rosa asked why water is mentioned in the instructions and I wanted to hopefully answer that.

Thanks, But now its going to sit in my car boy for a few months to age. It is okay to have headspace? The wine level is at the shoulder of the carboy.

 

[Brew and Wine Supply]

so my grand cru cab kit is done. I racked it the first time and topped it off with one bottle of cab and 3 more bottles of water. I didnt think I needed that much to top it off. For some odd reason why I racked it the first time the wine level was really low. According to the instructions it said to top it off with water not with another wine. But I feel as if its going to make the wine weaker. So i topped it off with 1 cab and 3 bottles of water. I re racked it again and i stayed away from the sediments and now my wine level is low again. Looks like I need another 2 bottles of wine to make the wine level 2 inches below the bung. Should I just add water or go buy more wine to top it off???? Or should I just leave the wine level where it is. Right now its at the shoulders of the carboy. Its ready to sit and age.

How much did you leave as sediment in the carboy? seems like a lot missing. also what size carboy are you using? If you are using a 6 gal, you need to drop to a 5 gal. that will solve part of the problem. If you are using a 5 to start with, you may re think and go to a 3 and a few 1 gal jugs.

At the moment you are looking at the addition of over a gallon with 3 bottles of wine and 3 bottles of water ( if they are 750ml bottles), seems like a lot to me.

If you need to add to it, use wine. Water will only thin it too much at this time.

 

[Dugger]

Yes, no more water. At this time you will have to top up with wine, move to a smaller carboy(s) as suggested or bottle it. If you decide to bottle you can probably leave for a week or possibly two not topped up if it needs to clear some more. Bottling would be your simplest and least expensive option, if you don't have smaller carboys.