Interesting links, although I could not get anything from the first one (the anotomy winter injury link). Rich, I am continually amazed at how much you teach us! Thank you.
Champlain Valley - Grapemans' vineyard - Planting to small winery
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NorthernWinos
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Will be interesting to see how your vines survive.
We are back in the deep-freeze the past 3 nights...-25°F [-31°C]...
I looked at our MIN-MAX on the thermometer...Guess we got to our coldest -36.2°F on Jan 13th [the day we drove to Winnipeg in -38 temps]
I am concerned about the Frontenac grapes... hanging on the wires....-30°F seems to be their range....We have one older vine that got a good pruning last year and expected a good crop this year...Time will tell. That plant and the young row of Frontenac will be replaced if the old vine doesn't start to show some production...Just living isn't enough...we want grapes.
As for the row of Edelweiss and Swenson Red [-30°F] plants...they grow on a panel and get laid down each winter and covered with straw...they never really give a bountiful crop...Maybe this year...?
I am wondering if you grow Sabrevois [-40°]??? That seems like a pretty hardy grape that might be worthy of trying up here on the frozen Northern plains.
We are back in the deep-freeze the past 3 nights...-25°F [-31°C]...
I looked at our MIN-MAX on the thermometer...Guess we got to our coldest -36.2°F on Jan 13th [the day we drove to Winnipeg in -38 temps]
I am concerned about the Frontenac grapes... hanging on the wires....-30°F seems to be their range....We have one older vine that got a good pruning last year and expected a good crop this year...Time will tell. That plant and the young row of Frontenac will be replaced if the old vine doesn't start to show some production...Just living isn't enough...we want grapes.
As for the row of Edelweiss and Swenson Red [-30°F] plants...they grow on a panel and get laid down each winter and covered with straw...they never really give a bountiful crop...Maybe this year...?
I am wondering if you grow Sabrevois [-40°]??? That seems like a pretty hardy grape that might be worthy of trying up here on the frozen Northern plains.
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OilnH2O said:Interesting links, although I could not get anything from the first one (the anotomy winter injury link). Rich, I am continually amazed at how much you teach us! Thank you.
Try it now Dave, I was wondering where that stray f came from- the end of the .pdf file!
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Al Fulchino said:
All three buds were pretty dead looking. I had to cut them back to the main wood to get green. Doesn't look good. Chardeonel should take it down to about -15 to -17F. I was 5 degrees lower than that more than once.
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Northern Winos said:
Sabrevois does very well here. I have 25 of them 2 years old going to start their third year here at my place. They have been doing very well at Willsboro. I made some very nice wine with it 2 years ago from Willsboro grapes.
It grows well here and is grown quite extensively north of the border in Quebec near Montreal and Eastern Townships. That is actually where it got it's name from- a village in Quebec. It has some foxiness, but no where near as much as Valiant or Beta. Give it a try.
See if you can get some Mn 1200 vines from U Minn. It hasn't been released yet, but experiences zero bud kill down into the -40F range. Very Hardy. It is a sister seedling to Mn1211 better known as Marquette. Even if a few flower buds were damaged, this year we had up to 7 clusters per cane on them! They do need some thinning if they all set!!!!!
AlFulchino
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Rich...just a question here...did you take your samples in for 24-48 hours before slicing open?
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Al Fulchino said:
I din't bother bringing them in Al. It was thawing on Saturday when I took them. I had figured if the buds were green, I would let them sit for 24-48 hours to let the buds dessicate and brown if they were going to. Since the buds were dead anyways, I didn't bother.
The link is now working, Rich. This is a great article and both reminded me of why I did not major in biology and of long suppressed cellular terminology! But, there is much to glean from the detail. Just one example:
<blockquote>In Eastern Washington, where there may be snow coupled with high light intensity, the trunk can easily warm above freezing, both by direct sun and by reflection off the snow. This “black body” effect of trunk warming in winter can de-acclimate tissues, so that sub-freezing nights or sudden cold spells can freeze-injure those tissues.
</blockquote>I think we know (or learn from bad experience) that a mid-winter thaw followed by more sub-zero temperatures is harmful. But I hadn't thought about slope, aspect, exposure and reflection and the fact that they could raise the "black body" of trunks to above freezing even in sub-freezing air temperatures.
This certainly won't keep me from losing sleep at night (after all, living where Heaven is just a local call has its advantages!
) but it will better explain what happens after a "mild" winter or why sometimes a "cold" winter isn't as damaging as it first might appear. I had worried that the sun angle in winter shaded my "vinyard" for more of the day on those sunny winter days. Now, maybe that isn't so "bad" after all. It's just one more variable in the mix!
Again, thanks.
<blockquote>In Eastern Washington, where there may be snow coupled with high light intensity, the trunk can easily warm above freezing, both by direct sun and by reflection off the snow. This “black body” effect of trunk warming in winter can de-acclimate tissues, so that sub-freezing nights or sudden cold spells can freeze-injure those tissues.
</blockquote>I think we know (or learn from bad experience) that a mid-winter thaw followed by more sub-zero temperatures is harmful. But I hadn't thought about slope, aspect, exposure and reflection and the fact that they could raise the "black body" of trunks to above freezing even in sub-freezing air temperatures.
This certainly won't keep me from losing sleep at night (after all, living where Heaven is just a local call has its advantages!
Again, thanks.
Jack on Rainy
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Appleman,
I have been following this topic since you posted it almost 2 yrs ago-very interesting and informative. Thanks!
I have been following this topic since you posted it almost 2 yrs ago-very interesting and informative. Thanks!
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That is right Jeff. The white paint reflects the sun and keeps the trunks colder. It is done around here a lot with the major crop- apples.
NorthernWinos
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Years ago I lost most of my [very/extremely hardy] Valiant and Beta vines...Thought they could live through anything...but, they didn't survive their big trunks splitting from warm/cold spells that come here in March. Most of them regrew from the roots.
Now I keep a young replacement vine growing from the base of the plant....
Will replace the old vine every few years.
I paint all our fruit trees, still get a little splitting when the paint wears off...even the larger branches have split. Thought that once the bark got rough they wouldn't need paint.
A few years ago some of the trees had really bad gashes split into them...
Broke my heart.... I saw that the ants were attracted to that gash...and figured the birds would be around soon...
Had nothing to loose at this point and wanted to try to save the trees...Took a big tub of Livestock Vaseline type product and filled in all their splits with gobs of it...it kept the bugs and birds out and the trees are still living...The Vaseline melts and runs a bit in the summer and looks really funky...but, it saved the trees at least for now....The trees are now 10 years old.
Now I keep a young replacement vine growing from the base of the plant....
Will replace the old vine every few years.
I paint all our fruit trees, still get a little splitting when the paint wears off...even the larger branches have split. Thought that once the bark got rough they wouldn't need paint.
A few years ago some of the trees had really bad gashes split into them...
Had nothing to loose at this point and wanted to try to save the trees...Took a big tub of Livestock Vaseline type product and filled in all their splits with gobs of it...it kept the bugs and birds out and the trees are still living...The Vaseline melts and runs a bit in the summer and looks really funky...but, it saved the trees at least for now....The trees are now 10 years old.
AlFulchino
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this also happens a lot on ornamentals in everyone's landscape as well...flowering cherries get hit a lot...even some maples that are at the age when their bark is young
aside from painting you can do a wrap....this is labor intensive but it means no unsightly painting of trees in the homeowners landscape
aside from painting you can do a wrap....this is labor intensive but it means no unsightly painting of trees in the homeowners landscape
NorthernWinos
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Al Fulchino said:
Last year we had a young Weeping willow split...I filled the crack with that Vaseline stuff too...It kept the ants out.
I knew it... an inch of snow last night, and temperatures warmed up. It's 17* now at 7am and high today is to be 30* Just my luck... it'll probably get there! NOW I'm concerned that the sun will come out and warm things up! (wring hands)
See... "TMI" and now I'm worried!
(Just kidding!
)
See... "TMI" and now I'm worried!
(Just kidding!
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WOW a whole inch of snow. You guys are getting pounded there this winter! We haven't gotten a whole lot of snow in January- just cold. That is typical for us here, just a bit colder than normal.
It is starting to snow heavily out now................. We are in for 12-20 inches of snow this afternoon and evening- YUCK. At least there is only 12-16 inches on the ground from previous snows. This may set us up for an early spring. We typically aren't on the retreating Jet Stream quite this early. It is usually February before the Jet Stream moves north again and we get the heavier snows.
It is starting to snow heavily out now................. We are in for 12-20 inches of snow this afternoon and evening- YUCK. At least there is only 12-16 inches on the ground from previous snows. This may set us up for an early spring. We typically aren't on the retreating Jet Stream quite this early. It is usually February before the Jet Stream moves north again and we get the heavier snows.
NorthernWinos
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After a few nights in the -25°F range we have warmed up....Warming up lately means it's above 0°....we haven't had a thaw around here since Nov....This has been a very brutal winter....will be interested to see what survives...We do have a healthy snow cover.
Today, being above 0°F.... it is snowing...and blowing. Won't be anything like hit all you folks to the South and now in the East....
At least you get above freezing temps and it takes down your ice and snow within a few days....Good luck...
Today, being above 0°F.... it is snowing...and blowing. Won't be anything like hit all you folks to the South and now in the East....
At least you get above freezing temps and it takes down your ice and snow within a few days....Good luck...
Yeah, a "whole inch!"
I know you're getting snow -- I've got to go to Buffalo next week (home office for a company for which I consult) and I'm sure THEY will have the snow!
I don't think we're getting "hammered" though -- the last "real" winter was '96 and it's been mild, for Montana, winters here ever since. Summer's coming though -- my son drove to school about 7:20 this morning and it was getting light, so days are getting longer....
I know you're getting snow -- I've got to go to Buffalo next week (home office for a company for which I consult) and I'm sure THEY will have the snow!
I don't think we're getting "hammered" though -- the last "real" winter was '96 and it's been mild, for Montana, winters here ever since. Summer's coming though -- my son drove to school about 7:20 this morning and it was getting light, so days are getting longer....
I forgot to add, NW, as I said earlier, we're on the western edge of your whole winter! I almost feel guilty because what winter we have had is only the western edge of those cold Alberta/Saskatch/Manitob "clippers" that are all part of the same airmass!
(..."almost" though
)
(..."almost" though
