2 Beginner Questions

[Kpassa]

3 Beginner Questions

I am making a simple juice wine from 2 gallons of Welch's 100% grape juice, 5 cups of sugar and a packet of Lalvin EC-1118 yeast. I took 64 ounces of juice, heated it, dissolved the sugar in it then added it to a container along with the other 3 bottles of juice. In the meantime I rehydrated my yeast then added that, using some leftover juice to make sure it all got into the container. I then taped a coffee filter over the opening and am allowing it to sit for 3 days before I put an airlock on it and let it sit for another couple of weeks. Also, rather than sticking something down into it to stir it up I just move the bottle back and forth to gently agitate it. When it looks like it is getting a decent amount of sediment on the bottom I siphon it to a fresh container, put the airlock back on and let it sit until I am ready to transfer it to bottles. That is my method now here are my questions.

1. Is heating and dissolving the sugar the best method or would it be better to simply add sugar and shake it up?

2. Here is a picture of the container I am using (I have 2 of them). It was originally used for spring water. As you can see there is a decent amount of area along the top but the opening is narrower. Do you think that is allowing a sufficient amount of air for primary fermentation or should I switch to a bucket? I removed the coffee filter just so you could get an idea of what it looks like but normally it is there allowing plenty of room for air to get in but keeping dust out.

3. When I put it back into bottles (I use the original bottles the juice came in) I add a small amount of potassium metabisulfite to each bottle but it still ferments vigorously enough that I have to open the caps and release the gas every day or 2. I thought that the purpose of the Campden was to kill off the yeast and stop fermentation. Am I wrong?

As you can see it's not the most sophisticated operation in town but I have made a couple of batches and it may not win any awards but it is drinkable. I just want to make the best out of my limited means an would appreciate any advice. Thanks

 

[mkjennison]

Interesting container! I haven't seen one like that before. I would suggest if you continue to make wine, my local big home improvement store has 5 gallon food-safe buckets with lids for about $5. It makes the whole primary fermentation much easier.

Did you mix in any additives to your must before pitching the yeast? Campden tablets are usually added before the fermentation starts (1 tablet per gallon of wine) to add free sulfur dioxide to the wine. This kills off any wild yeast and bacteria, but normal wine yeasts are designed to withstand a small amount of sulfur dioxide. Campden will not kill the wine yeast in normal concentrations.

As far as the sugar, either method would work OK. If I am just adding sugar, I don't usually heat the liquid beforehand; just add directly and stir. Since your container has a small oepning though, it may be easier to dissolve beforehand so you don't have to stir it until the end of time

How much is a *small amount* of potassium metabisulfite? This additive should only be added 1/4 teaspoon per six gallons for preservation of the wine.

Since it doesn't seem like your wine is finished fermenting, I wouldn't leave the bottles in the open for very long; otherwise you will have a juice bomb in the kitchen; haha. You can try sticking them in the fridge and leaving for a few weeks - this is called 'cold stabilization' and will end the fermentation and kill the yeast. Note that after the yeast dies, it will settle out to make sediment in the bottom of each bottle; you should carefully rack off of these lees into new bottles.

There are tons of people around here to help! Feel free to ask any questions as things come up. Remember - to prevent spoilage you want all of your equipment to be cleaned and sanitized before touching it to your fermentation.

Thanks, Mark

 

[cpfan]

Hi Kpassa, Welcome to WMT and a great hobby.

To answer your questions...

1) I haven't added sugar to my juices very often (I usually make kits), but just adding it to the liquid and stirring vigorously has worked for me.

2) I would say that your process works fine for primary fermentation. Air has access, and CO2 can escape. Not sure I'd like that surface area after the ferementation slows or stops (probably 7-10 days). How much does that water jug hold?

3) Without a specific gravity reading (you really should get a hydrometer), I can't be certain what is happening once you bottle the wine. However, I think it's likely to be dissolved CO2 escaping rather than continued fermentation. You didn't mention degassing the wine before bottling. If it's in the jug, you should be able to degas by shaking fairly vigourously. I would add the K-meta to the jug before shaking. Then you won't need it in the bottles.

4) Mark/mkjennison suggested adding K-meta to the original juice. I don't think that is necessary to add to the bottled juice. If there are concerns about the sugar, it might be necessary, but I doubt it's necessary for that.

Your process isn't what I would call "best practices", but it's obviously working for you.

Steve

 

[Kpassa]

Hi, and thanks for the replies. The container is 2.5 gallons and is sold in Supermarkets by several different distributors of spring and purified waters. It comes with a pull-out plunger that lets you control the release of water, making it easy to fill a glass. When it is empty I just pop that section off, leaving the opening you see in the picture. It easily accommodates a standard rubber airlock plug. They are flimsy compared to a carboy but very inexpensive (about 2 dollars including the water) and tough enough for what I am doing.

I have a hydrometer but normally just use a conversion chart because accuracy isn't critical to what I am doing. I know from the bottle's nutrition label that the juice contains 36 grams of sugar per 240ml, which is about 144 grams per liter and if I want to get it to 15% ABV there needs to be about 260 g/l so I add sugar to make up the difference. If it ends up anywhere between 8-15% ABV and tastes okay (not like vinegar) that is good enough. I use the Lalvin because I read that ordinary bread yeast would be killed off once the ABV reaches around 9% and EC-1118 can kick it up to twice that level. We're talking Pruno with a bit of quality control

When I transfer it to 64 oz containers I use about 1/16th of a teaspoon potassium metabisulfite per bottle. I don't worry very much about the fermentation in the bottle getting out of hand because plastic bulges rather than explodes and I release excess gas long before it would ever come close to over stressing the bottle.

It should be pretty obvious by now that I'm not a connoisseur. I read that a glass of wine per day is good for heart health (they originally said red wine but later decided that it was the alcohol that was important) and making my own is less than half of cost of even the cheapest commercial brands. I'm drinking for health, not for taste. My wife, OTOH, likes her wine and has said that a few of my batches don't taste too bad considering what I'm working with.

 

[sour_grapes]

The suggestion to get yourself a $5 hydrometer was not really about determining the ABV of the final product. Rather, it was for a diagnostic tool to use to figure out where you were in the process.

I have no objections to your objectives, equipment, or procedure. However, not taking SG readings will make it hard to figure out if something goes wrong.

 

[jdmyers]

for a very small investment and a little research on this site you could be making wine that not only is good for you but taste awesome too. And as an added bonus, at least at my house, when your wife starts loving your new awesome wine it helps your marriage if you know what im sayin ::

 

[jdmyers]

Also kpassa be aware that just because a container is good for water doesn't make it food grade and good for wine. with the fermentation process and the alcohol those containers could be effecting the tast of your wine. you could buy a couple of 1 gl glass jug of wine to reuse as your secondary fermenters with air locks. And you can usually get free food grade buckets from your local grocery stores bakery they get 1 and 5 gallon buckets with iceing in them. works great as a primary fermenter

 

[GaDawg]

1. Is heating and dissolving the sugar the best method or would it be better to simply add sugar and shake it up?

Your sugar is a lot easier to dissolve in hot water, but you should not boil the water. Boiling water will drive out the O2 and your yeast will need the O2 to start the fermentation. IMHO the best way to add sugar is to make a simple sugar 2 parts sugar to 1 part water. It's like ice tea, you can't sweeten cold tea ya gota add the sugar when it's hot

 

[cpfan]

Kpassa:

I figured that you didn't have a hydrometer, but I was wrong. You should take a hydrometer reading before bottling. If it's below 1.000, then fermentation is finished. If it's above there are some sugars that could activate a renewed fermentation.

BTW, another question that I should have asked...what is the temperature of the wine during fermentation and at bottling. This will have an affect on the speed of fermentation and the retention of CO2.

Steve

 

[Kpassa]

Kpassa:

BTW, another question that I should have asked...what is the temperature of the wine during fermentation and at bottling. This will have an affect on the speed of fermentation and the retention of CO2.

Steve

Right now it's at a darn near perfect temperature, about 68 degrees, and it's bubbling away like crazy. I also rehydrated the yeast before I added it to the wine, something I didn't do in previous batches. Between those 2 factors this is turning out to be the best batch I have done yet. I didn't have an airlock on it but I also had it sitting on my kitchen counter (actually my wife's suggestion. She likes the smell) so at eye level I could see the bubbles rising up along the sides of the container, so much so that I left it fermenting for 6 days instead of 3 before transferring it to another 2.5 gal container and putting on my airlock. I also added another 1/4 cup of sugar to the new container, just to give the yeast a treat. I'll let it sit again until the bubbling slows down before finally moving it back into my original 64 oz bottles. I had enough left over after the transfer to fill a 12 oz glass that was so cloudy you couldn't see through it. It tasted wonderful

 

[mkjennison]

Sounds like you're on the right track! The delicious part is the most important; haha. Keep on winein.

 

[jethro]

When you transfer it into the 64 fl. oz. plastic bottles, you can let the plastic screw-on lids loose. Just put a piece of scotch tape over the lid and down the sides to hold the lid on. That way you won't have to remember to burp it. (Unless, of course, there's a dog that might bump into it and knock the plastic bottle over.)

 

[Kpassa]

When you transfer it into the 64 fl. oz. plastic bottles, you can let the plastic screw-on lids loose. Just put a piece of scotch tape over the lid and down the sides to hold the lid on. That way you won't have to remember to burp it. (Unless, of course, there's a dog that might bump into it and knock the plastic bottle over.)

Good idea. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Kpassa]

I racked my wine last night. Look at the difference between the wine I siphoned off and the part I left behind, not counting the sludge still left in the bottom of the original container:

We let it chill for a few hours then my wife tried the wine on the right while I drank the stuff on the left. She says it's OK, a bit on the dry side, good but not her favorite of the wines I have made. This wine is 2-3 batches behind what I make so it will have a couple of months to clear up some more before I get to drinking it. Maybe in that time I'll come up with some proper fermenting materials like a bucket and a glass carboy but until I do this seems to get the job done. I will definitely proof my yeast before adding it from now on as it seemed to do a much better job than just dumping the packet in. Thanks for all of the tips.