Wine getting stuck in fermentation... no hydrometer

[Zule]

well I racked one of my wines (with a little over half a cup of sugar per liter). It has been in the carboy for a little over a month without being disturbed. No hydrometer readings. The bubbles have been slowing down (~1 per 45s).

After my racking (1 hour ago) the bubbles are much less than 1 per minute now and it was still very sugary. I know its shots in the dark without hydrometer (I will definitely use one on my next batch to get the readings). But I am thinking it might benefit from some thiamine hydrochloride and maybe possible some more 1118? Or some other yeast nutrient?

Suggestions?

I also have two other younger wines that are bubbling away fine, but I am wondering if I should take some preliminary actions so they also do not get stuck in fermentation.

Note: I recently read that its best to add the sugar as you go along and not all at once in the start. Not sure if this played a part in this issue as the initial fermentation was going along fine.

edit: I would be willing to start a second batch of this same wine and mix them together after 1 week or so if anyone think that is a good idea.

 

[cpfan]

Zule:

IMO, the only good idea is to get a hydrometer and find out if the fermentation is finished or stuck or maybe continuing. Visual signs of fermentation (ie bubbles) can be misleading. Why go to a lot of effort (and possibly wreck the wine) if the fermentation is finished?

BTW a month in carboy with no extra sugar added, sure sounds like fermentation is probably finished.

Steve

 

[Zule]

well I did not taking an initial reading with the hydrometer. But is 1 month even enough for this much sugar? There is at least 1/2 a cup of sugar per liter, but probably more sugar. From what I read online it takes about 2-3 months.

Also you say 'fermentation is probably finished', not sure what that means? Are you saying its reached it alcohol limit? Won't thiamine hydrochloride help me out if that is the case? Or worse case starting a new batch with no sugar and mixing them together after a week or so?

edit: I should stress that its VERY sugary. Much more than any icewine Ive ever drank.

 

[Duster]

It's only a guess without an initial specific gravity reading but it's possible that the yeast may have died off from alcohol toxicity.
Yeast can only consume so much sugar before creating a uninhabitable conditions for them selfs. It is posable that this has happened before tracing dryness. If so I don't think there's much you can do other than blend it into more juice to dilute the sugar and alcohol content then pitch a strong yeast like premier curvee

 

[salcoco]

normally the concept of adding sugar periodically during fermentation is to develop a port wine at high alcohol levels. it is best to get a hydrometer and add sugar to the required level at the beginning of the fermentation. a sg reading of 1.092 will get a nominal 12% alcohol. then when the bubbling stops the wine is finished which can be verified with a hydrometer method. as the yeast will die once alcohol levels are reached adding sugar along the way will end up with a sweet wine as the last additions will not be fermented.

A hydrometer is a must.

 

[Zule]

well my second carboy batch is only about 2 weeks old but its also greatly slowed down. Think I am going to taste it (but I cant imagine it being done) and stir it tomorrow.

Next time I go to USA ill also buy some premier curvee. But for now (tomorrow) ill take my first stuck batch and put half of it into another carboy so I can fill both with fresh juice and new yeast.

I could not find thiamine hcl, but I did find thiamine mononitrate. But from what I read online you specify need thiamine hcl? Wonder what would happen if I threw in some thiamine mononitrate.

Think tomorrow ill also start about 10 mini batches in bottles (using the apple juice that has never failed me). Ill keep increasing the sugar content of each batch by 1 dessert spoon (10-11ml). Ill test with hydrometer in every batch. Then I think ill test it with a hydrometer on the second week, and every week thereafter (I imaging it wont take more than 4 weeks). Good plan?

 

[cpfan]

well my second carboy batch is only about 2 weeks old but its also greatly slowed down. Think I am going to taste it (but I cant imagine it being done) and stir it tomorrow.

Next time I go to USA ill also buy some premier curvee. But for now (tomorrow) ill take my first stuck batch and put half of it into another carboy so I can fill both with fresh juice and new yeast.

I could not find thiamine hcl, but I did find thiamine mononitrate. But from what I read online you specify need thiamine hcl? Wonder what would happen if I threw in some thiamine mononitrate.

Think tomorrow ill also start about 10 mini batches in bottles (using the apple juice that has never failed me). Ill keep increasing the sugar content of each batch by 1 dessert spoon (10-11ml). Ill test with hydrometer in every batch. Then I think ill test it with a hydrometer on the second week, and every week thereafter (I imaging it wont take more than 4 weeks). Good plan?

So you have a hydrometer!!! What is the reading on the "stuck" batch? If it's below 1.000, it's not stuck, it's finished.

Steve

 

[Zule]

I always had a hydrometer. I even mentioned it almost every single post ive made on this forum I just never used it. I felt it was extra steps (like sterilizing it the hydrometer), extra work, and more wine exposure to oxygen.

And my first batch is not finished. I tried some of it before I racked it, it was more sugary then any ice wine ive ever drank. Completely un-drinkable.

I am hoping my second carboy batch is a bit better tho (less sugar per volume of juice in it).

I will take reading of both of them tomorrow.

 

[cpfan]

I always had a hydrometer.

Title of thread includes "no hydrometer". What am I supposed to believe?

Steve

 

[3274mike]

If you have a hydrometer then tell us what the readings are. as far as getting unwanted oxygen exposure to the wine it needs oxygen until its almost done fermenting in primary. That's why you stir it once or twice a day in primary. You shouldn't be putting it in a secondary until you get to your lower readings on the scale. Secondary meaning carboy and air lock

 

[Zule]

ok... here goes... I got no clue what these mean

Batch 1#: 6 weeks old, 3 gallon carboy, ~5 cups of sugar, sugary, ocean spray blueberry - AG: 1.014
Batch 2#: 3 weeks old ,5 gallon carboy, ~5 cups of sugar, sugary, using welsh's raisin frozen concentrate - AG: 1.035.
Batch 3#: 13 days old, 3 gallon carboy, ~4 cups of sugar, taste a tad dry, allen apple juicestill bulbing, still not clear, good process - AG: .992

So my third batch (youngest) using allen's apple juice taste the best and most fermented, and still has lots of bubbles. But it has yet to clear up (maybe time to rack it due to AG levels?)

My second batch is very slowed down with the bubbles, I stirred it today. Was very sugary.

My first batch is also very sugary and undrinkable. I took it and did the 50/50 Duster mentioned (put half in another carboy and filled both carboys with new juice).So now my first batch helped create half of my 4th batch. Both batch 1 & 4 got new yeast.

 

[salcoco]

assuming ag means specific gravity, only batch 3 looks to be complete. I would add some yeast nutrients in the other two to finish. Not knowing your beginning specific gravity, there is a good chance you have stressed the yeast with a high sugar start and it has stopped fermentation due to alcohol toxicity. If you want to continue making wine without wasting your time I would commence using a good protocol by measuring specific gravity when you start. Make sure you are not above 1.092 , add yeast nutrient, stir must twice a day then measure when activity seems to slow down. you will not oxidize your wine getting the sample necessary for measuring the specific gravity. Continue as you are and you are not only wasting time but money.

 

[Pumpkinman]

I just never used it. I felt it was extra steps (like sterilizing it the hydrometer), extra work, and more wine exposure to oxygen.

I don't mean to be rude but if you feel that sanitizing a hydrometer too much work, you may be in the wrong hobby.

 

[Zule]

assuming ag means specific gravity, only batch 3 looks to be complete. I would add some yeast nutrients in the other two to finish. Not knowing your beginning specific gravity, there is a good chance you have stressed the yeast with a high sugar start and it has stopped fermentation due to alcohol toxicity. If you want to continue making wine without wasting your time I would commence using a good protocol by measuring specific gravity when you start. Make sure you are not above 1.092 , add yeast nutrient, stir must twice a day then measure when activity seems to slow down. you will not oxidize your wine getting the sample necessary for measuring the specific gravity. Continue as you are and you are not only wasting time but money.

Yeah all my future batches I will have SG reading at start to get them to the right numbers.

I do think I definitely added too much sugar. And other than maybe the apple juice, the other juices also could probably benefit from yeast nutrients.

My batch 2 (that turned into batch 2 and 4 with new yeast) are both bubling away now. So thats a good sign (compared to no activity before).

Since the SG is below 1 on batch 3, think ill rack it this Friday. Tho I wouldn't be surprised if its mostly clears itself up by then.

And since I am using juice, I have no must. So do I still need to stir daily? Seems all it would do at best would be to mix up the lees and add some oxygen.

 

[salcoco]

stirring the juice will add oxygen which helps the yeast fermentation. also helps to dissipate CO2 which helps clear the wine later.
If really concerned using the hydrometer, purchase a refractometer. should be available for about $75 or less on internet. this instrument only requires a drop of the juice to measure the brix of the juice. tables are available to reference brix to specific gravity. during fermentation the alcohol will distort the reading go to this site http://valleyvintner.com/cp-tips-links.html. scroll down to the discussion on using a refractometer for specific gravity measurement. a spreadsheet is available for download that corrects the refractometer reading to specific gravity so that you can monitor the fermentation during the whole process. The advantage of this method is only a drop of the must/juice is required each time you measure., thus reducing use of sample jar etc. if desired use the hydrometer at end of fermentation to verify wine has finished. I have used this method for years. it works great and is correct as I have checked it against a hydrometer for a number of batches. It also allows easy determination as to when to add yeast nutrients, nominally the day after fermentation starts and once 1/3 of sugar is consumed.
Calibration is done each time it is used with a drop of distilled water. sanitation not a issue as the drop is not returned to original fermentation.

 

[jamesngalveston]

Pumpkingman is right up front....It really is not that hard to rinse a hydrometer.
It is more accurate then just saying added 3 cups sugar.
It is more accurate then just saying , the bubbles have slowed down.
There is a thread here on How to read the hydrometer and tons of articles on what it means when reading.
I take several for my notes.
OG...before i add any sugar
Sg...when i add to get to my starting
Fg...when it finishes
I take a reading everday in between and add to my notes.