Sorbate answer

[cimbaliw]

I've had no less than 4 of 4 batches of apfelwein referment. I was at the LHBS and saw the owner. I asked him about the rate of sorbate turnover and he assures me the stuff on the shelves turns over every 2-4 weeks. I told him about my referment issues and he suggested the the ABV may be less than 10% in which case the sorbate isn't as effective. Didn't know.

BC

 

[Runningwolf]

I have never heard that answer.

You had four fermentations restart. Are you positive the fermentation was completely finished before you added sorbate. When you added the sorbate what rate did you add it at and did you add the proper amount of k-meta at the same time?

Sorbate will not stop an active fermentation.

 

[jensmith]

I've had two wines referment that I backsweetened and sorbated/sulfered. Both 1-2 months after the sorbate was added. Both were clear and stable for 3+ months before sorbate was added. 13-15%abv. Sweetened to 1.000. My lhbs guy said I was special..... ( especialy odd with equally weird wines )
I don't often backsweeten but I double check everything when I do in case it was operator error. Then wait as long as I can stand it befor botteling.

 

[Julie]

Are you making sure that your wine is degassed? And are you sure that your wine is done fermenting?

 

[terroirdejeroir]

My apologizes for hijacking the thread, but my question is at least sorbate related. I have a 16% ABV hard cider that has settled in nicely at 1.007 SG and stayed there for over a month with no apparent signs of fermentation. I sulfited it a few days ago, but I am tempted not to add sorbate as I did not actually back sweeten it. I really don't like sorbate, but I like explosions and messes even less. Can I get away without sorbating this cider before bottling? I do plan to run it through a 1 micron filter before bottling.

 

[grapeman]

terroir this will be more a wine than a cider since the alcohol is high. Filtering at 1 micron will not get rid of all the yeast. It would take an absolute filter of .45 microns to do that (meaning it will remove all cells larger than .45 microns not jus some). You can't be certain that it won't start again, but with the alcohol that high it likely won't. One thing you could do if you don't want sorbate would be to bottle in champoagne style bottles and stoppers with wire cages. That way if it did start up again the bottles should hold without blowing. Then you would have a nice sparkling apple wine.

 

[BernardSmith]

Another way that will stop refermentation - but I myself have never tried this - is to pasteurize your wine in the bottles for 30 minutes at 66 C. Now, I have no idea how much that temperature will expand the air or gas trapped between wine and cork or how much pressure that will apply to the cork or how dangerous it might be transferring hot bottles into a cooling bath or indeed, how this temperature might destroy volatile flavor molecules... but yer pays yer money and yer takes yer chance. But at that temperature for that length of time your yeast will be past tense.
http://winemakermag.com/1164-avoiding-sulfites-adding-copper-wine-wizard

 

[jensmith]

My apologizes for hijacking the thread, but my question is at least sorbate related. I have a 16% ABV hard cider that has settled in nicely at 1.007 SG and stayed there for over a month with no apparent signs of fermentation. I sulfited it a few days ago, but I am tempted not to add sorbate as I did not actually back sweeten it. I really don't like sorbate, but I like explosions and messes even less. Can I get away without sorbating this cider before bottling? I do plan to run it through a 1 micron filter before bottling.

What yeast did you use? Some yeast dies at that abv, some keep going. If yours died off then you are all set, no need to sorbate. If you used a high abv yeast then it could referment.

 

[Julie]

What yeast did you use? Some yeast dies at that abv, some keep going. If yours died off then you are all set, no need to sorbate. If you used a high abv yeast then it could referment.

There is no guarantee that the yeast will die off at a certain ABV, it has been known that there are times when a yeast doesn't die off at its designated ABV

 

[jensmith]

No kidding.
Monstrat usually goes to 15%abv or better for me. Its rated to 13%abv. But that said it us unlikly that it would refermenet at 16%abv after a month. Knowing the yeast type does make a difference in advise given as to sorbate recamendations.

 

[terroirdejeroir]

I used EC-1118 and I have successfully fermented it to 18% a couple of times. I tried to run a cooler, slower ferment this time to see if I could get it to stop at my target SG. It has been at 71* for about five weeks now with no apparent activity and no change in the SG.

I am in no hurry to bottle, but if I am going to have to add sorbate I might as well do it soon.

What if when I bottle it I store it in the fridge? That would be safe, right?

 

[Julie]

It really is difficult to stop a fermentation at a certain sg. If you are not adding any more sugar you are probably fine and keeping in the frig is a very good idea.

 

[lawrstin]

Interesting description of Potassium Sorbate in Williams Brewing Winter and Spring 2014 catalog,

Potassium Sorbate Prevents renewed fermentation in wine when used in conjunction with sulfites. It will not stop a renewed fermentation, but can discourage one from starting. 1 oz. A85 $1.90

 

[jensmith]

With 1118 I would either wait a few months or sorbate. I have had wines referment after several months of stability. Sometimes simply racking the wine gets it going again. Bottle bombs are not fun.
I have got 1116 to 18.4% abv. I have not tried maxing out the 1118 yet. 18+% was plenty high!