Somebody, restore my faith, quick!

[Comet in TX]

Short story is: new winemaker finds out about this place called Water 2 Wine that makes wine for sale from the same kits she is currently using to make her first wine, and thinks, Oh COOL!, I can buy a bottle and find out what mine is going to taste like after I've lovingly prepared it, invested in all this equipment, etc....

So she buys a bottle of WE Estate Series Sonoma Valley Pinot Noir (supposedly a good quality kit, right?), and............, it tastes like box wine. We finished the bottle but my husband actually shuddered as he took the last sip. It had a strange grape juicey taste, no length, no aroma........

Please someone tell me this is all worth the effort...........!

 

[Goodfella]

Oh boy...
I have never made or tasted that kit. Here is my thoughts. Even if THAT kit sucks in the end, you still have all the equiptment to do other kits. I made a MM Meglioli Barolo. I have bought 40-50 dollar bottles of Barolo, and mine tastes better. (IMO) And, its still young.

 

[Joanie]

Comet, how old was the bottle you tasted?

 

[Wade E]

It will get much better over time but thats 1 of the things I personally find with W.E. kits and many others. What other brands do they sell there. I usually only make RJ Spagnols En Primeurs or Winery Series kits but have heard both Cellar Craft and the Mosti kits are very good. Ive had quite a few W.E. kits and have only found a few that Ive liked like the Stags Leap Merlot.

 

[xanxer82]

I think your faith shall be restored after you make a few kits then move on to fresh fruit. Then you control all of the variables.
I'm starting to look at kits as a learning tool for the most part.

 

[ibglowin]

I would be surprised if that was more than 6 months old.

You need at least a year and 18 months is better. Don't panic. Choose your kits wisely, go with the higher end, bigger kits. Let your wine age as it should and you will be happy!

 

[Comet in TX]

Well, explain 2 things to me. 1st off, I don't think the wine is aged at all. They flat out said they sell it as soon as they bottle it (oh, and they stick the bottle on some magnetic coaster that 'ages' the wine 2-3 years in 30-40 minutes, yeah right). As we all know, aging wine takes time, space and money.

But I was prepared for that to make the wine rough, tannic, and yes, un-aromatic. This was just a completely strange taste to me. Very well balanced the way Pinot Noir is, but nothing else. I mean, it got really cloying towards the end. Also, the alcohol seemed a bit high to me for a Pinot, 14.4%.

Now, from what I can tell, Winexpert is the dominant player in the WineMaker awards each year. How can that be if all of their kits just aren't that good? Are people seriously messing with them?

I don't get it.

 

[Wade E]

If its straight out of the carboy per instructions then thats the problem. You cant judge a wine by what it tastes like after 4-8 weeks. Like any wine with the exception of a low abv mist kit they need much time and some more then others.

 

[JimCook]

Comet,


What kind of commercial wine are you comparing this against. At a certain point, kits just will not be able to compare. And time will definitely make a difference, jus tlike with commercial wine.


- Jim

 

[Cracked Cork]

Comet, they just made it to sell and get people interested in their kits. YOU are making it with TLC because its going to be something special to you. There might be a little bit of difference there right? Crackedcork

 

[smurfe]

OK, here's the jist. Most Wine Expert kits will have the taste and aroma you speak of. This is what you will read in the forums as Kit Taste. I have made a whole bunch of Wine Expert kits and every single red kit had this. This sensation is highly subjective and many will not experience it. It will go away but in my experience it takes about a year and a half to two years. I don't even crack into a bottle until they hit the two years of age. They have mostly all been very good at that time. All of the Estate Series and Limited Edition kits have been very good.

The statement that some taste as good as a $30.00 bottle of wine is highly subjective to. Of course, I have drank many a $30.00 bottle of wine that wasn't a good on my palate as an $8.00 bottle. So in essence, yes you can make a very good wine at home. If you have a sensitive palate it is going to take you much longer than others as you are going to have to appropriately age your wines. Remember, the commercial wines you buy are normally at least two years of age. A kit doesn't really sped anything up. Give it time and you can be rewarded.

PS, the magnetic thing is Snake Oil.

 

[admiral]

The WE Estate Series Pinot Noir requires at least 4 months aging and is said to peak in 1 to 2 years. The "Water Into Wine" folks are just rushing things. Wine takes time. Alcohol is there when fermentation is complete. If it is alcohol they are selling, then they are on the right track. If it is wine they are selling, only time will produce that particular elixir.


Comet, don't worry. You will produce wine that you will be proud to serve to your friends and family. I have only been making wine for a year and I have had the pleasure of servingmy wine to folks and getting the ultimate compliment, "Do you have another bottle of this? I want to take some home."

I know my wines aren't at the $30 level yet but I would gladly pay $10 - $15. Time, I think, is the ultimate ingredient.

 

[skinnydipper]

Oh boy...
I have never made or tasted that kit. Here is my thoughts. Even if THAT kit sucks in the end, you still have all the equiptment to do other kits. I made a MM Meglioli Barolo. I have bought 40-50 dollar bottles of Barolo, and mine tastes better. (IMO) And, its still young.

Can you tell me more about this kit? I recently discovered Italian wine: http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-16446-Fairfax-County-Wine-Examiner~y2009m10d18-Dante-Ristorante-and-Maison-du-Vin-host-an-Italian-Wine-Dinner-featuring-Cantine-Vietti-Wines



That was a $50 Barolo we had with the beef and mushroom. It was, perhaps, one of the best reds I have ever tasted.

 

[vcasey]

When you bottle your kit put some away for tasting, but don't open a bottle for at least 6 months and then taste another 3 months later. You will be very surprised at the changes the wine goes through. Like smurfe I don't bother with my kit wines until they are in the bottle for a year and I'll bulk age mine in carboys for 6-12 months before bottling. Both of us do have the advantage of a nice supply on hand and soon you will as well. Most important thing is to have patience and give the wine time to do its magic.
VC

Oh yeah, I agree that magnetic thing is snake oil. I've heard where others call tell a difference - I'm not one.

 

[ibglowin]

(oh, and they stick the bottle on some magnetic coaster that 'ages' the wine 2-3 years in 30-40 minutes, yeah right)..

I was wondering what they did with the old defunct Superconducting Super Collider

 

[Brewgrrrl]

I felt the same way when I tasted my first kit. I was so disappointed that I put away all of the bottles I'd just filled and went back to brewing beer. Then I made some meads, fruit wines... finally this summer a friend was visiting and I didn't have a red wine on hand so I thought - well, this is probably going to be awful but I'll open one. Total surprise - it was quite drinkable. That was a midrange kit too (not too watery like the cheap ones but not all juice with skins or red raisins for real complexity and depth either), but aging it over a year really made a big difference.

With kits, it seems that you get what you pay for, and a general rule is that the more juice/less water added the better end result. And there's just no substitute for time... which is why I also make beer.

 

[Comet in TX]

Well, so should I consider the Estate Series from WE a mid-range kit? People seem really down on the WE kits, maybe I should only make the CC Showcase/Limited, MM all-juice kits, and Spagnols En Primeur/Winery Series.

I think I will continue as I was then, everyone seems to be saying it was just way too early.

It's frustrating though, if I'm not going to know what I've got for another 2 years, how on earth am I supposed to become a better winemaker between now and then? I won't know what mistakes I'm making!

Lara

 

[vcasey]

With kits you can count on a good wine since they make them pretty mistake proof. You just need to be patient and make a lot. If you are looking for an excellent mid range kinda kit, take a look at Mosti's Renaissance kits as well as the Master's all juice kits. Cellar Craft makes some 12 liter grape skin kits that I understand are also good. And please don't discount the WE kits, they are great especially the limited edition kits.
If you are looking for earlier drinking wines try a white wine as they are ready much faster. Speaking of that WE is releasing its Pacific Quartet with the limited editions this year. The wine is a fantastic summer wine and if you get a kit when released and make it right away you'll enjoy it all next summer!
Just remember that there is no short cut to time when it comes to your wine.
VC

 

[Dean]

It's frustrating though, if I'm not going to know what I've got for another 2 years, how on earth am I supposed to become a better winemaker between now and then?  I won't know what mistakes I'm making!Lara

This is why we keep large amounts of notes and records about the wines we make. That way, we can go back to our journals and see what we did.

 

[Wade E]

Dont get me wrong! W.e. kits are ok its just that they have a much more pronounced Kit Taste then all the others In my opinion. The others seem to not have this or have much less of this grape juice Jolly Rancher taste and it will diminish or disappear much faster. There will be some kits that taste pretty decent right away but still improve greatly over time. Please do not get discouraged and give up cause you will be missing out.